28-09-2002 14:24									#1
	Ministers: We need better Communication. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't know how, but you guys got to get together and talk.

Putting together the orders it is obvious you are all expecting things of each other. We either need to have a request department for each Minister or something/

The following may sound harsh, but is intended to be constructive. I have no tact, sorry, but I call it as I see it plainly.

Aggie

I don't know if you should be giving orders based on an expectation from the MoE until asking if it will be done. And, the tmple request should have been taken to GK, I dont know Ministers have enough time to read through EVERYONES orders to see what is requested of their department...

Reddawg

While you can authorize the cashflow and decide what gets rushed, you do NOT decide what is being built in the Cities. You should petition the City Planner office if you want the production changed. I cannot put the order to change production under your section...I also know that the City Planner specifically asked for one rush only, and that even he requested his funds go to upgrades first.

To ALL

It would sure be helpfull to whomever is doing the compilation in the future if you would somehow highlight what you edit. I must basically rewrite the whole thing now as I hear of edits, but dont know which lines specifically.

We entered an age where cash talks. We must now adjust to how we handle it. It is 3 AM, I can't think of suggestions at this time, can someone else, perhaps?

We all have different ideas on how to best play the game, but we need to focus that into the right area. I never would read the other ministers orders, I would be busy with my own. Can't we go to the other somehow instead of issuing orders that contradict the minister in charge of that area? It is disturbng o me to see contradicting orders. If I were a Minister and another posted orders contrary to mine, it would suggest to me that the minister had no respect for me, or didn't think I knew my own job.

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 28-09-2002 at 14:51

	28-09-2002 15:08									#2
	Support Apolyton

This is actually a pretty classic problem for cabinets structured this way (cabinet officers elected seperately to role-specific posts and a lack of a strong executive position). I've worked in exactly that type of system before in RL in multiple positions (including the mostly powerless executive), so I do have some experience with it...

This problem really is more systemic than really any one person's fault (it's the unfortunate combination of everyone doing the seemingly *natural* thing to do in their position). However, there ARE things you can do about it if you're conscientious enough to account for the disadvantage of the system. For instance, you really have to make a point of being sure to communicate with each and every other member of the cabinet that you need to communicate with... do it on a regular basis, whether by PM, e-mail, AIM/ICQ, or whatever. Just make sure you each have a way of contacting each other with concerns and requests and make a habit of using them. Also, everyone has to make a conscious effort to respond (whether positive, negative, etc. doesn't matter so much as that you *do* respond) reasonably soon to such requests or suggestions, etc.

This is *THE* primary disadvantage of the system we have here, but the good news is that it can be overcome.

Of course, we could always change the system we have here, but there are enough merits to the current system (and this disadvantage *can* be accounted for), so I think we should stick with it and just bear in mind that people have to watch out for this.

	28-09-2002 15:11									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

There you go...someone with tact. Um, just ignore mine and read the above one...

It's 330 AM, what do you want!?!

	28-09-2002 16:02									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Since I'll be compiling the orders for the next turnchat, I will do the first attempt to make a list of minister-to-minister requests. Then each minister will be able to see what is expected of him.
In addition to posting this list in the forum, I will PM each minister the part of the list that is relevant to him and he'll have to respond and say which requests he wants to fulfill and list the changes that need to be made to his orders.
We'll see if this works. If it doesn't, we might have to consider opening a sub-ministerial office that will be in charge of minister-to-minister cooperation.

	30-09-2002 02:05									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This has been a problem for a while now. Aggie and myself often PM eachother regarding coordinating our offices. This has been more difficult of late for me as I have not be around as much lately on poly. I only am seeing this increasing here til december, which is why next month I do not think I will have the time to be a minister for the next term of two.

Communication is the key. When I get the time, I like to read over (quickly) other ministers orders, particularly befor I post my orders. I have made changes based off of what others have posted.

An idea. Once compiled, the person doing so will most likey come accross any and all inconsistancies. Most of us are more than willing to work through any differences. So if any appear, then can we just set up some way of pointing any out and going forward from there.

City planning has what, 30 cities now. Mearly a fraction of what will come around 1750 AD when we own france, america, germany, greece, persia, along with portions of russia, rome, and england.

We need to reorganize, as our constitutional convention is doing, to streamiline in and provide checks and balances.

	30-09-2002 02:25									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think as long as we PM each other with requests, everything should work fine. Aggie has been just exceptional in this regard, always PMing me when he wants to request workers to do something.

Togas has also been excellent in doing this. I think the biggest department I need to be in contact with it the City Planner, so that I can help maximize production/growth in cities and he should tell me what to do. Godking has been fairly consistent with this, I recall a few times quite awhile ago where I had randomly come across a request for me in his orders thread. But that hasn't been an issue as of late.

I think as long as we all PM each other, or get in contact in SOME way, it should work. We can't assume that ministers are going to read everyone's orders and pick up on something.