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CiverDan
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Does anyone know if culture flipping will be turned off by default in elimation games? If not would someone lose if a city of yours was culture flipped, or would it have to be taken by force?
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Coracle
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His second question is simple and so is the answer: YES, you would likely lose a game if a key city suddenly flipped and your large garrison disappeared magically into thin air. (See Alexman's "It Finally Happened!" thread for a particularly outrageous example of CF that ruined an entire game).
CF thus adds an ABSURD RANDOM ELEMENT to the game. If I wanted to roll dice and play craps I would, but unless CF can be turned OFF I won't play Civ 3. And since I can't turn this CF nonsense off without buying PTW, I won't play Civ 3 as Firaxis is getting no more of my money.
And I will be happier.
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metalhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Coracle
His second question is simple and so is the answer: YES, you would likely lose a game if a key city suddenly flipped and your large garrison disappeared magically into thin air. (See Alexman's "It Finally Happened!" thread for a particularly outrageous example of CF that ruined an entire game). |
Coracle, please try to read the original thread question before ranting - your thoughts on CF are not relevant to the question of whether in a MP game, while playing ELIMINATION, a city flip will eliminate the Civ that loses it.
To actually answer the question instead of offering a repetetive rant that everyone has read ten times over, I would assume that losing a city to a CF in elimination would, in fact, eliminate you, at least according to the current description of the mode. I guess it remains to be seen if they will allow for CF to be disabled, although Firaxis seems to be pretty insistent on CF as an intrinsic property of the game, and I would deem it highly unlikely that it will become selectable, even in PtW.
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JonahFalcon
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New York, NY USA
Nov 2000
time: 05:22
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I already wrote in my preview that cultural conversions can be toggled on and off - I prefer it on, by the way.
One of my screenshots shows the toggle.
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CiverDan
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I was just thinking, culture flipping will not be that great of an issue on regicide game (except on small maps maybe) because no one is going to build a city in a location where an opponent can mass a few dozen mounted units in their own territory and reach your city in the same turn.
BTW culture WILL be important even if culture flip is off because it will be critical to know where units may be massing beyond your borders (true everyone will have tons of units roaming...but 1000+ culture cities do help (and they force armies of units to expose themselves to attack before they reach your city).
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Randolph
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Burlington, VT
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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I know this is a bit off topic but I wanted to note something on combat:
I like civ3 combat better than civ2, in fact I liked civ1 combat better than civ2. The almost sure thing nature of civ2 combat allowed for poor strategy, one could safely bet the game on the outcome of a single combat. Although this ‘sure thing’ combat may be appealing for those who like to win every game with the same strategy, for those of us who like more of a challenge there is something appealing about the randomness: So your tank just lost to a musketman, what are you going to do? Are you going to sit there and whine or are you going adapt your strategy to the new conditions. Do you set your self up for a situation that if you lose one or two combats that you “should” win, that you’ll be screw up your attack plans, or do you have plans for “what if” scenarios.
In regard to culture flipping you said that someone had a random city flipping screw a whole game for him? I can’t say I wouldn’t be pissed if an important city suddenly flipped on me, but if I couldn’t deal with it I’d be more upset with myself for putting all my eggs in one basket.
I have a feeling that people who have a problem with the more random combat (but lets face it, its not like it’s completely random, e.g. I’ve never seen 10 tanks lose to 10 muskets) are probably people who do a lot of restarting when their situation ‘wasn’t fair’, and re-load old saves when battle outcomes ‘weren’t fair’.
Maybe their scared of PTW because they know that their ‘eggs in one basket’ strategies will generally fail in multi-player to strategies that can better adapt to situations. Perhaps they just can’t except that they might lose games as well as win them. Personally I look forward to game I lose as much as ones I win.
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brianshapiro
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Berkeley
Nov 2001
time: 21:22
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caliban, civs/govts aversion to other govts makes resistance stronger , also greece is small and tight with much culture; even in a scenario culture flipping shpuldnt cause problems
and also remember culture flipping doesn't just cover citizens of one culture opting to join another; but also covers mass migrations that displace cultures and ethnically different provinces revolting.
i suspect someone making a greek-turk scenario will set the culture points of each city VERY high
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brianshapiro
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Berkeley
Nov 2001
time: 21:22
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note: high culture will also ensure large greek resistance to turks---better than setting culture flipping off. please drop the anti culture flipping nonsense of coracle, and the bs that its not historically accurate
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gsmoove23
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I love culture flipping. Their is nothing more enjoyable to me than setting my cities close to an enemy border investing tons in temples and other cultural propaganda just so a few centuries down the road one of their cities flips. I love cultural flipping until it works against me of course.
Ok, you have a large army, just conquered an enemy city and you think if you just sit all your hordes and military hardware down in the middle of the city their is no way these pesky little civilians are going to revolt. Think again. This happened to me 3 times in the same city, same game. Now I never claimed to be too bright but I was amazed, I kept on sending in larger and larger armies to see if it would happen again. It doesn't seem to matter how large your army is! Is there a fix for this? It seems to me that if you're willing to garrison a city with a large enough army you should be relatively safe from this!?!?
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Nyl
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I dunno. If Canada invaded New York City with 10 tank battalions, I think the citizens might be able to put up a good fight. I mean, all you'd have to do is drop some molotov cocktails out windows onto the tanks.
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29-09-2002 03:18
The hell? He has a right to complain if the fix costs money. At least look at it from his perspective. I don't think anyone can disagree that when CivIII came out it had major problems. I don't think anyone disagrees that the subsequent patches fix at least some of those problems. Coracle feels that culture flipping was one of those major problems that wasn't fixed. Would you be happy if you had to pay for all the patches up until now? It's the same principle, and I think it is a good one.
). I could only wish Civ3 had the same fans as EU...
But luckily, it's getting better here!
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