29-09-2002 04:27									#1
	"Constantine V vs. Artavasdos" scenario Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hello!
I present my new scenario "Icon and Flame"
(or "Konstantinos vs. Artavasdos").
It's my first COMPLETED scenario so, please, don't be too mercyless critics! :-)


Brief introduction:
Roman Empire (Byzantine). The starting year is 741...
Leo III's coruler and succesor, Constantine V Copronym (741-775), continued his father's religious politics (iconoclasm). He also was well-known for his large and usually successful military expeditions against Bulgars and Arabs.
So, the summer of 741... Constantine prepared the campaign against Khaliphate. A large army was concentrated in Phrygia (in the center of Asia Minor); but new emperor left his back without defense. Artavasdos (he was husband of Leo's daughter, Anna; also - curopalate and theme strategos) suddenly attacked Constantine's camp; then he moved to Constantinople where he got support of citizens (which were icon-worshippers, on the whole) and where he was proclaimed the new emperor and basileus of Romans "as orthodox man and defender of God's
dogmates".
But Constantin escaped to Amorium (the main city of theme Anatolik; the stronghold of
iconoclasts, who were devoted to Isaurian family). There he drafted new army for the great and bloody fratricidal war for the crown of Roman Empire...and for the religion of Romans.

Attachment: konstant.zip
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

	29-09-2002 05:28									#2
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I like Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire equally. Yeah, "Byzantine" is a Frankish invention, but I don't go around referring to "Finland" as "Suomi" or to "Georgia" as "Groozia".

	29-09-2002 13:21									#3
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I voted for Byzantium simply because I feel that will be more familar to most people. East Roman would probably work to though.

	29-09-2002 15:30									#4
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Alexandr, nice scenario

just one thing, though - maybe you could use some different terrain and cities. BeBro's cross and crescent scenario is a good source for both, particularly byzantine cities. See also Fading Lights and Daroae for cities if the authors don't mind.

BTW I tend to think of 'Eastern Roman' as being associated with the Roman Empire up to and including Justinian's reign, with 'Byzantine' being used from the late 6th century on. I think the Byzantine emperors continued to think of themselves as 'Roman', though.

	29-09-2002 18:52									#5
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number 2

	03-10-2002 20:09									#6
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Ha!

An original subject for Byzantium!

At last, glad to see someone else besides Herreson showing some imagination about the wealth of material offered by Byzantium.

Doing my honors in the Byzantine military, I'll be sure to give the scenario a close review when I play it.

By the way, the potentials offered by the the civil war between Thomas the Slav and Michael the Amorium is another subject you may wish to explore.

The Byzantines always considered themselves Romans.

Constantine's last name translates as "Name of Dung"

Keep it up!!!!!

	04-10-2002 16:52									#7
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Oooh, very nice topic indeed! What a shame I can not see it...
It's all my parents' fault!

	05-10-2002 14:45									#8
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I think you mean " H Politeia ton Romaion ".


Although they spoke Greek, most were Greek, the Byzantines called themselves Romans.

Greek or Hellene as a name appears at about 1200AD+.

In Europe the Emperor was sometimes demeanigly called Emperor of the Greeks, instead of the proper Emperor of the Romans.


I vote for Roman Empire.

Last edited by Palaiologos on 06-10-2002 at 18:06

	07-10-2002 03:33									#9
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I agree with Palaiologos. Modern Greeks still refer to themselves as Romans (Romioi) in casual speech. Now it is interchangeable with Hellene (=Greek in Greek), and Romiosyni is the word for the Greek nation in general. However, Muslims characterise Asia Minor Greeks as Rum (Romans) and the rest as Yunnan (Ionian= Athenians etc.). In Hindu Brahmin texts Greeks are called Yavannas (Ionians) too. Greek is the name of an insignificant Arcadian (?) Hellenic tribe that pioneered the colonisation of Italy. Romania is the casual name of the Roman empire during its later stages and in folklore. Rumelia (land of the Romans) is the turkish name for the Balkan peninsula. Rumeli is central Greece. Byzantium is the name of the ancient colony that became Costantinople/ Istanbul. It was founded by Byzantas the Megarite, a Dorian= tribal antagonist of the Ionians (these are the dominant Greek tribes in Antiquity). Hellene/ Greek had negative connotations during the middle ages, taken as a synonym for pagan. Hence the Greek/ Roman dualism.
There is more to add to this subject than can shake a stick at...

	07-10-2002 03:47									#10
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quote: Originally posted by fairline Alexandr, nice scenario just one thing, though - maybe you could use some different terrain and cities. BeBro's cross and crescent scenario is a good source for both, particularly byzantine cities. See also Fading Lights and Daroae for cities if the authors don't mind.

Thanks!
About graphics: better city graphics almost done (from H. Thompson’s collection and M.Panos’ scen., but slightly altered), it’ll be included few later. I looked through lots of terrain pictures (from cross and crescent-2 too) but I prefer «standart» terrain (except desert, plains and ocean - from terrain collection).

	07-10-2002 03:51									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos I think you mean " H Politeia ton Romaion ". Although they spoke Greek, most were Greek, the Byzantines called themselves Romans. Greek or Hellene as a name appears at about 1200AD+. In Europe the Emperor was sometimes demeanigly called Emperor of the Greeks, instead of the proper Emperor of the Romans. I vote for Roman Empire.

Of course, «H Politeia...», sorry for mistake.
Thank you for your vote.

	07-10-2002 03:54									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Swampthing

Thank you, I’ll be very grateful for your review.
Not a bad idea about Thomas the Slav; although I must polish THIS scenario at first [it is important, but not so interesting part of scenario creation :-( ]

> Constantine's last name translates as "Name of Dung"
> Keep it up!!!!!

I know this unpleasant moment of Konstantin’s biography; but my scen doesn’t cover his birth-day and christening. He had also another «nickname» - Kaballin, and this fact is presented here, in events ;-)

	07-10-2002 04:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by tanelorn I agree with Palaiologos. Modern Greeks still refer to themselves as Romans (Romioi) in casual speech. Now it is interchangeable with Hellene (=Greek in Greek), and Romiosyni is the word for the Greek nation in general. However, Muslims characterise Asia Minor Greeks as Rum (Romans) and the rest as Yunnan (Ionian= Athenians etc.). In Hindu Brahmin texts Greeks are called Yavannas (Ionians) too. Greek is the name of an insignificant Arcadian (?) Hellenic tribe that pioneered the colonisation of Italy. Romania is the casual name of the Roman empire during its later stages and in folklore. Rumelia (land of the Romans) is the turkish name for the Balkan peninsula. Rumeli is central Greece. Byzantium is the name of the ancient colony that became Costantinople/ Istanbul. It was founded by Byzantas the Megarite, a Dorian= tribal antagonist of the Ionians (these are the dominant Greek tribes in Antiquity). Hellene/ Greek had negative connotations during the middle ages, taken as a synonym for pagan. Hence the Greek/ Roman dualism. There is more to add to this subject than can shake a stick at...

Thank you very much; some of this information (esp. about modern situation) was new for me. I have a question: what about "Graikoi"? are the modern greeks use this word?

	07-10-2002 05:20									#14
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Well, Graikoi is "Greeks", plural, as it is spelled in Greek. Graikoi imo was ok, because it didn't annoy the Church (?). I can think of a certain Maximos bearing the name , in Russian Church history, also el Greko in Spain etc. all outside Greece, were Hellenes were called Hellenes at least since Homer (and before that Danaoi, Achaeans etc.) Babylonians called Greeks Ahayawa or sth. and the Egyptians used something similar.

	09-10-2002 16:14									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

Actually during the final years of the Empire, the native population started to develop a "national" consience. Thus the Greeks started to refer to themselves as hellenes. The philosopher Gemistos Plithon made the begining. At that time the only lands still Imperial were Greek lands.

Half of the population turned to ultra-orthodox denying vigorously any aid from the Pope, while the other half turned back to it's ancient heritage of the Hellenes.


The final years of the Empire were dramatic indeed.