01-10-2002 06:46									#1
	Ok..this is the last .SAV I'm posting... Enter the AD-FREE zone

..and I know some of you are happy about that.

I think I have the hang of this finally. I draw France on a Small Map..6 civs..well, 5 now. England is gone thanks to my Swordsmen. They wanted Map Making for Iron Working so they can build them and they would've because they had a couple of Irons near them. Naturally, I didn't give in to the demands so they declared war on me and I turned them into dust razing two cities and taking two, including London.

I have a Galley out scouting for more land as I am alone on my own continent and rapidly expanding. I have overlap between cities and have been getting tech in less than 12 turns. I should have the whole continent to myself in no time unless someone comes and messes with me. Only problem is, I'm surrounded by Jungle. I have some workers clearing it. I have about 10 cities or so and it's 700 BC or somethin like that. I know I'm behind in tech because another civ built/is building The Hanging Gardens already, so I need to catch up. I basically waged war with England since turn 5 LOL. Here's the .sav

I think I'm doing alright. I've been playing games up to A.D. and then restarting, as Cracker suggested..if you guys want more games I have three other going right now

Attachment: france-mark1.zip
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	01-10-2002 08:19									#2
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Mark, can;t look tonight, but I will in the next few days.

1) Thank god you are France.

2) Keep posting; sometimes people get a little strident, but overall like to help.

	01-10-2002 09:17									#3
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Thanks Theseus. I just realized though that's it Warlord level, not my usual Regent, which is probably why I killed off England so quick and am doing so well.

Yeah those workers are great to have in this kind of a situation and having a Middle Ages UU will help a lot especially if I get the Great Library. My settlers were running like mad to get to their destinations and I really want to control my continent now that England is crawling with the worms

It's better than what's going on in my other game as Persia. 10 Civs, Standard map, very close quarters. I'm on top in that game so far in all aspects, but all the land around me has been gobbled up, so it looks like I have to go warmongering with my Immortals to get some land. That's on Regent thankfully. But anyways, I want to thank everyone, especially you Theseus and Cracker for all their help. It's much appreciated.

	01-10-2002 10:51									#4
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I didn't look at the save, but as a general rule of thumb I would say it is a bad idea to go to war against your neighbor if you are the only ones on an island. You see, you need the other civ to exchange techs (so you should in fact have traded iron working for map making). This is the reason you are behind in tech. My suggestion is that you first fins the other civs, and only then take out your neighbor.

	01-10-2002 21:58									#5
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Hurricane, I didn't want to go to war with England but I just didn't want to give up tech like a baby to them, especially if it's something that would've increased them militarily in strength. So they declared war against me, I knocked them down to only Nottingham, sued for peace and one tech. One turn later I broke peace and knocked them off

As far as my game with Persia, I've met all the civs except for one and am ahead in tech. The weakest civ is Russia and the next up is China IIRC. Quarters are so tight and civs are so edgy they're not even giving out RoPs. So it's time to start a quick war to get some extra soil. My immortals are right outside Chinese soil aching for their blood. Here's the mini-map:



Now as you can see, I have China, Greece, Russia, England, India and Hiawatha all around me so I figure take out China, take over their cities, and expand, expand expand. So that'll be an interesting game to say the least...

	02-10-2002 08:17									#6
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Theseus, that French game..here is the mini-map in case you look at this thread ever again LMAO!



I'm ahead in tech and 2nd in military next to China, who culturally overthrew Babylon. Hiawatha is down to four cities, two bordering China and two on an island. And the Zulu are also down to two cities.

It's 1560, early Industrial, and I'm gettin tech at about 8 turns each. By looking at the map, can you tell if China will win by Domination via Culture? They will take out the Zulu and most likely me or China will kill off Hiawatha. I have a few wonders(missed the GL by two turns) like Sistine and Sun Tzu(I might have more but I forget LOL)

I was initially aiming for Diplo, but I don't think that'll happen unless Hiawatha holds up. I'm ahead in score and if I can get Longevity and Cure for Cancer, I can hold off China by score, but Histo is so not what I want.

Should I attack Hiawatha with China? I have enough Musketeers/Cavalry to beat them easily and they do not have Iron

I don't want to attack China yet and I want to avoid warfare until Tanks. I'll stay on Warlord for now

	02-10-2002 09:04									#7
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Without knowing the specifics, I would be gearing up to take out China's top four (adjacent) cities. Cavs are fine up until Infantry, otherwise wait for Tanks. No way China wins diplo, so you have until SS to screw Mao up.

Sorry, still haven;t had a chance to check out the French SAV, but for the Persia game, given 1) the strength of Immortals, and 2) the small empire sizes, I'd be warmongering like a mofo. Cracker's advice notwithstanding (and he's abso right about early game decisions), Immortal rushing is like kicking down a sandcastle. In fact, that's the kind of map where I sometimes throw caution to the wind, let the chips fall where they may, and just osci-massacre everyone in sight... the only reason to stop is to let one of the poor bastards come up with a tech you want, or even build a GW for you... otherwise, just slap them around. You don;t even need to pull the Arrian Deception... it's a big enough continent that even if the unkown civs of the world later find out what a psycho bastard you are, it won't matter.

Screw it, go further... think of the AI civs as GL generation tools. Really, how does that change your game?

(Arrian, if / when you read this, it's that damn Japanese map that has pushed me over the edge into "psychomonger" of the week... just too strong!)

	02-10-2002 09:05									#8
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If you are playing Warlord, set science to max. you will out tech your opponents easily and can sell some for cash.
On your French game, i wouldn't bother helping China taking out either of those civs, it's just not worth it. OTOH, if that Iroqouis land is linked to the Chinese continent, it might be wise to rush for it, take it as a staging area for a war on China.
Beeline for ToE, go for tanks and nukes. you might be able to nuke China into oblivion, or go for Space.

Your persian game: take out every single civ on your continent one at a time. On Warlord, you will easily keep up in tech with the one remaining civ. Send suicide galleys to look for him and then go for the great lighthouse. If you find him early and he is near, use galleys with immortals to go for the early Conquest win.(with great lighthouse of course.)

	02-10-2002 09:13									#9
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KoA and I posted almost simultaneously... the Persia game is on Warlord?? Mark, you are still in experimentation mode... experiment the power of Immortals!! (= Tiger Woods plays against the Cameroon Mini-Golf Champ!!)

	02-10-2002 10:11									#10
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Persian Game: Regent
French Game: Warlord

BTW...Hiawatha is dead

ToE is being built, by me and China, but Mao has a nice headstart. I have IW in the making, I missed Newton by one turn, I should definitely make Modern..China and I are neck in neck techwise but about 30 points ahead of me. I'm helping Shaka stay alive with Tech/Res so they make it with me to the UN. I'm gracious towards both civs.

I'll learn more on Warlord now since I jumped from Chieftain to Regent, but it's fun, I actually know what it is like to win

As for the Persian game, yeah I have my Immortals kicking China ass, next is Russia, then I'll work my way up Possibly win by Domination there

	03-10-2002 03:46									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Knightblade pDM As for the Persian game, yeah I have my Immortals kicking China ass, next is Russia, then I'll work my way up Possibly win by Domination there

Having immortals on that map is like shooting fish in a barrel

I've never had a start like that, I should play a small world sometime.

The only trouble you'll have is with MW and hoplites.
Greece only has 2 cities it seems, so no problem there.

	03-10-2002 07:37									#12
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French Game:

China is being invaded by 6 Galleons full of Riflemen/Cavalry and two cities have been taken so far, so probably will win by Domination if I take a few more adjacent ones.

Persian game:

Massing Immortals near China, I could probably leave them alone and just out culture them and just move the Immortals over to Russia since they now have 4 cities and are growing

So far so good, Domination on both probable I'm just so proud of myself

	04-10-2002 00:40									#13
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Mark, I can;t open the zip file for some reason.

Can you post a SAV or is it too big?

	04-10-2002 05:41									#14
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Theseus,

Hhmm this really never happened before with the other savs...wonder why this one..anyway here is the rundown of what happened

Finished ToE, Manhattan, Universal, missed Hoover by 10 turns but had 2 Hydro Plants built in adjacent cities. Built the UN and managed to keep Shaka around long enough.

Took 4 Chinese cities, sued for peace. I won by a 2-1 vote over Mao since Shaka had an MPP with me after the Chinese invasion. I figured if I had one with them during the war, Shaka would be dead LOL. So won by Diplo there.

Haven't done anything with the Persians yet, and probably won't until tomorrow. Had a very long day and I need some early shuteye.

	04-10-2002 06:13									#15
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Sleep over Civ??!!

Infidel!

	04-10-2002 06:17									#16
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I've been playing this game in my sleep dreaming about what I'm going to do next. I have each map and situation burned into my mind so I think about it often LOL

Anyway, I'm trying out that Persian game now but will probably stay on warlord for the time being. Going from Chieftain to Regent two weeks after I got it was a big mistake LOL