01-10-2002 07:14									#1
	Player philosophy Increase the size of your Attachments

Hello, I'm (almost completely) new here, but not at all new to strategic games - I've played them since the day i Was born (which is a moment before they were invented ) As this is a really nice place, I would like to point some stinking ideas here.

Here is one for a good start:
1.There is no great difference really between Public Works in CTP2 and workeres in Civ3! Why? The idea of games of this type is finding balance between various kinds of development. Among them is infrastructure building, for which you spend resources - instead of spending them for buildings (i.e., more overall city development) or armies. So the decision is: I spend my "wheels" on farms. Whether I realise this by producing a worker who I will then order to dig, or directly, through saving up the respurces, is a secondary question.

1a. By the way, I'm just curious - how many of you guys like classical wargames - after all, these games here are very similar, and what most of us like best in them is the smell of oppponents blood (not sure if I'm among these players, anyway ) I mean "more serious" simulations like Operational Art of War, or Total War among RTS.

	01-10-2002 19:33									#2
	Player Philosophy Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

2. Conquer or be conquered.

	01-10-2002 19:52									#3
	Remove this text

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html

I used to play Total War but i play too much ctp2 now, and my computer/connection is too poop to play Total War multiplayer.

edit: darn it wrong link

Last edited by Maquiladora on 02-10-2002 at 00:21

	01-10-2002 19:56									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Micelius Here is one for a good start: 1.There is no great difference really between Public Works in CTP2 and workeres in Civ3! Why? The idea of games of this type is finding balance between various kinds of development. Among them is infrastructure building, for which you spend resources - instead of spending them for buildings (i.e., more overall city development) or armies. So the decision is: I spend my "wheels" on farms. Whether I realise this by producing a worker who I will then order to dig, or directly, through saving up the respurces, is a secondary question.

That's right the isn't actual a big difference, but nevertheless there is one improtant difference: If you try to improve a huge empire then you will never build 200++ settlers or workers to accomplish this task.

-Martin

	01-10-2002 21:08									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'd respectfully disagree with the first statement. While it's true that the opportunity cost between settlers and PW are essentially the same, and in that regard, there's no great difference. Infrastructure is, after all, infrastructure. I would contend that there is a deep, and fundamental difference between the two methodologies. Consider the following:

* Workers as terrain improvers mean extra micromanagement on the part of the controlling player. Workers must be moved and assigned specific tasks, and then relocated. Contrast with public works, which abstracts the notion of specific units doing terrain improving work.

* Workers as units = potential targets if/when enemy military units come calling. This makes worker-based tile improvement more expensive, on average, when compared to PW tile improving, as there is no "attrition effect" to be found with the latter (tho both types of tile improvement are still subject to pillaging from enemy armies).

* PW tile improvement is amorphous and indirect in its nature. It is entirely possible to bring the full weight of an empire's resources to bear *instantly* on even the most remote corner of your empire. Workers must plod their way one tile at a time to new locations, and it may be scores of turns before your tile improving units even *get* to far corners of your empire. Structurally then, this makes PW vastly more efficient.

So....I would put forth the point that the primary and secondary questions in your post are so intricately interwoven that the two cannot be separated to any significant degree, thus the importance in the distinction between the two methodologies.

But...that's just my two pence....

As to the second question, yes! I play almost every kinna war game I can get my hands on, including the really bearish tabletop games by Avalon Hill, made several gamesets for warpstorm games, and am a big supporter of cheapa$$ games (which produces some AWESOME titles, btw! How can you NOT love a game called "Unexploded Cows"

TBS strat games of all genres, and a select few RTS's (tho few RTS games can truly be called "strategy" games, unless fast mouse clicking is counted as a strategy....*G*)

Okay....I've rambled enough....I'm hushing now and clicking submit....

-=Vel=-

	01-10-2002 21:39									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Velociryx cheapa$$ games (which produces some AWESOME titles, btw! How can you NOT love a game called "Unexploded Cows" -=Vel=-

well, don't no that title, but i really love kill dr. lucky

to the question, i'm normally not much into wargames (though i have a few at home), much more into roleplayinggames and rather abstract though political and weird boardgames (i really LOVE illuminati, the boardgame, haven't tried the tcg so far)

and i don't play rts games at all, as vel mentioned fast mouse clicking ain't strategies or tactics. actually i even don't like the name rts, since most of them are anything than realtime. in real realime games you would spend weeks just sitting there with a coffee and listening to the reports of your armies, sometimes giving them new orders and frustratring press conferences where you always show the same video which actually was done in hollywood instead of iraq

	05-10-2002 18:21									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

As Vel has already underlined it the difference between workers and PW is very important as far as I'am concerned, the worker management system is tedious especially towards the end of the game, there is nothing more irritating than to move workers all around the map for most of the turn (almost 90% of it) instead of concentrating on the management of the cities in your empire. PW is a much appreciated feature of CtP2.

About wargames, I'am a tabletop and computer wargamer and boardgamer. I don't play any RTS game (except EU 1&2), I rather play computer wargames like Steel Panthers : World at Wars, SSI's "General" games (operation Panzer, People's General, Pacific General...), Talonsoft's Eastern & western front and Divided Ground. I have Operational Art of War I & II but I haven't yet tested them as they are very complicated, but I will someday...