02-10-2002 03:31									#1
	Special Economic Report: Monarchy vs. Republic Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As requested by certain officials, I am issuing a special economic report detailing what we can expect a government switch to do to our economy.

Chart 1:
A comparison of what we make as a monarchy now, in 430 AD, and what I estimate we would be making as a republic (as we are a Religious civilization it will only take us one turn to switch over, thus preventing a lot of problems that we may have had otherwise).

Conclusion: Corruption costs are, thankfully, no worse under Monarchy than under Republic. However as we will be making more money, we will also be losing more. If you calculate the percentage of income minus percentage of expenses, we currently make 30.2% surplus. Under Republic we can expect this to fall to 13.8%

Attachment: monrep1.jpg
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	02-10-2002 03:31									#2
	Remove this text

Chart 2:
A raw number comparison of the same as chart 1; this more accurately shows the changes under Republicanism: under Monarchy we make 89 Lytons. We can expect this fall to 72 Lytons under Republic.

Conclusion: Taking for granted a 20% luxury rate and the unit costs, we will at first make less money under Republic. But remember that these are very conservative estimates: worst case scenario. There is a good chance that we will actually make *somewhat* more money from the start; but with the addition of some courthouses and temples/cathedrals to drop the luxury rate, we'll be making much more.

Attachment: monrep2.jpg
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	02-10-2002 06:21									#3
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WOW!

	02-10-2002 06:34									#4
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Well... I never made any calculations, but, as I said in another thread, in my games the change to Republic from Monarchy gave me more troubles than solutions... I usually go to Democracy without touch in Rep.

Edit:
Reddawg, this is, maybe, the most important information that you gave us with the stats. Powerful tool!

	02-10-2002 06:35									#5
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A few questions:

What will our profit be in absolute terms under Republic? (And what is it now?)

Can you show some estimates for total profit after construction of courthouses and temples (accounting for the lessening of the luxury rate and of corruption)?

How does science funding factor in?

	02-10-2002 06:50									#6
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The profit right now is 89/turn, under Monarchy I predict 72/turn but it's got a good chance to be as much as 90/turn. This all is based upon a 0% science rate, which we already know won't be the case but for the sake of this analysis...

as for courthouses and temples, its safe to say that 10 temples and 10 courthouses would cancel eachother out; a courthouse in a small or medium city will probly only save a couple commerce; in bigger cities it saves a lot more; so in actuality 10 temples (needed in smaller cities) and 10 courthouses (needed in larger cities) would lead to oh, a rough estimate? increasing income by 10-20 per/turn.

	02-10-2002 09:06									#7
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Ignore me.

	02-10-2002 15:10									#8
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Ah. I thought that the 89/turn and 72/turn referred to income minus expenses. (It's that high? )

	02-10-2002 17:17									#9
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May I suggest not to add expenses and revenue in any kind of financial analysis ? If you choose city income as reference, which is appropriate, expenses should be expressed as a % of city income.

	02-10-2002 20:03									#10
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I don't think a switch is feesable atm. We'll maek more money but will have to put so much into lux that we'll be making less over all. we really could do with some market places.

	02-10-2002 20:29									#11
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Unortho- ignore you? what? lol

Vlad- income minus expenses IS profit

Davout- je ne suis pas certain, qu'est-ce que tu veux dire?

	02-10-2002 20:47									#12
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Are we sure we would need 20% luxaries?
(Assuming of course we aren't at war.)

In my own games, the only time under Republic I've need a percentage of money going to luxaries at all was to fight war werriouness.

I sugest that we look into aquiring more unique luxaries. (Trade - War - Culture Bomb)

Aro: We are religious and should take advantage of the low cost to switch when adventagous. If we weren't religious I'd be advocating skipping Republic and waiting for Democracy myself.

OPD: The luxaryies needed will go down as Market Places are built in our core cities. We need to build the Market Places anyway. A GA starting right after we switch to Republic would also increase revenue and reduce the luxary percentage needed.

	02-10-2002 20:47									#13
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I am not certain, what is it that you are trying to say?

We really need to start building market places. If we had them in 10 -12 cities it would be no contest and we'd definatly switch to republic.

	02-10-2002 20:49									#14
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Oops - cross talked.

	03-10-2002 06:28									#15
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wow this topic has become very confused, i dunno whos talking to who anymore or about what, lol.

	03-10-2002 06:40									#16
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I don't remember what thread it was in, but I recall Aggie and Shriber working out that one of our cities with current luxuries and a temple (other than Uber Isle cities) could make it to size 6 w/o revolt and a city a Cathedral and temple (along with our luxuries) could make it to size 14 or something like that w/o revolt (because of Sistine's).

This is apparently due the number of happy citizens created by each luxury (and happy citizens counteract unhappy citizens on a 1-for-1 basis) and the additional # of unhappies made content by using temples and cathedrals (we won't even need colloseums until we get hospitals because of Sistine's, apparently).

As such, I'd think we wouldn't need a luxuries *rate* AT ALL. Rather, for the Uber Isle cities, we just make citizens entertainers if it's really necessary.

So if we make more money under Republic even WITH a luxuries rate and we don't actually need one, then why not switch?

	03-10-2002 08:48									#17
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Also here's another question under GA where would be come out ahead. If the answer is republic then we switch before ga and switch after ga over. I forget the exact benifits of ga.
Aggie

	03-10-2002 09:37									#18
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we should first mop up the war agst persia and finish off america for good. then if we want to switch to rep. We should have a nice 20 turn peace building period with GA (agst americans). Perhaps we can renegotiate all peace treaty as possible to time the end of GA so we can resume war activity after GA

	03-10-2002 09:38									#19
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The most oddest glitch on explorer...... my post had Arnelo's mugshot.... freaky... must have been table error

	03-10-2002 17:14									#20
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yeah, don't forget that war weariness is going to be a *****; just a nother reason to implement the Pax Apolytonia!

	03-10-2002 22:58									#21
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Aggie had made a suggestion in another thread about waiting until 520 to hit the remaining few US cities, and that will probably go fast (if the Aztecs don't eat them first...) Two things: 1) if Republic is better for building infrasturcture, then sooner is better, and 2) if we want to culture bomb the Aztec scum that take the US cities, then its better to do it with Republic.

Is Republic better than Monarchy for building?

	03-10-2002 23:23									#22
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if we change to Republic and then go to war with america for the GA, we're going to have a major weariness problems, from all the years of previous wars. but going to GA in Monarchy then switching to Republic will mean we're wasting one GA turn in anarchy. Hmm... a dilema.

	03-10-2002 23:36									#23
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I believe the plan allowed for a few turns in between stopping war on Persia and switching to Republic, then starting war on America so the people 'forgot' the War Weariness of the Persian Wars.

	04-10-2002 01:11									#24
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We shouldn't switch until we know we can make money and we are not at war.

	04-10-2002 01:42									#25
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Unless we want to wait until the middle of the industrial era for the next Industriial wonder adviable (Hoover Dam), we have to trigure a golden age with our unique unit. (Well actually there is a theory that states that the next time we build any Great Wonder we get a Golden Age but the only way we can do this anytime soon requires a Great Leader, Education, and Music Theory.)

So we are going to have to be breify at war as a Republic unless we want to be a Monarchy thru the Golden Age. (Or lose one turn Golden Age in Anarchy.)

For most combat purposes, our War Chariots are already obsolete, and are only really reliable attacking against Archers, Long Bowmen, and any left over warriors. Once Calvary are built, it will be extermely difficult to get a golden age with them as every unit on the combat field will have a higher defense rating that the War Chariots attack rating.