02-10-2002 10:03									#1
	Viking's Berserk... Balanced? Get a bigger avatar today!

6/2/1 unit replacing longbowmen and has amphibious capability... This is the best information i have of berserk. I may be wrong, but assuming this is true, is this balanced? or is there a catch to it or perhaps does other civ get a bit of a facelift with their uber unit as well that way vikings uber doesnt see superior?

	02-10-2002 11:56									#2
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Marine units have never been balanced.

Have fun.

	02-10-2002 14:14									#3
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FWIW, they'll cost 60.

	02-10-2002 14:39									#4
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If vikings have no iron they'll have to stick with horsemen the entire medieval era.

	02-10-2002 23:52									#5
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Really? It replaces longbowmen? I thought it was medieval inf. or swordsmen or something... and where did you get 6/2/1?

	02-10-2002 23:56									#6
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Yes the bezerker replaces the longbowman...

	02-10-2002 23:57									#7
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Being the ONLY civ that can amphib assault until Marines come along is superpowerful.

At least with Marines, everyone haa the potential to build them.

Is there a resource requirement: Iron, etc.?

	03-10-2002 00:46									#8
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Requires iron.

	03-10-2002 01:17									#9
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I doubt that it has a resource requirement because it is replacing the resourceless unit

	03-10-2002 01:22									#10
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resource req. is perhaps a balancing act.

	03-10-2002 01:32									#11
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No reviews tell either. But i believe iron requrement is one of the balancing factors of that unit and a nice twist making the unit even ore unique intead of the normal beef-it-up UUs.

	03-10-2002 01:48									#12
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My logic is, what happens if you don't get iron and you are the Vikings? The answer. You are well and truly ****ed. The best offensive unit you will get until you can secure some iron will have an attack of 2. There isn't anything you can do about it before cavalry come up (and that requires saltpeter and horses). That would be really unbalancing. Every team needs a Middle Ages resourceless unit or they will lose. Those Longbows saved my ass a few times.

	03-10-2002 01:59									#13
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Bereserk are 6/2/1 amphibous. That's a chance I'm willing to take for a unit like that. Aren't YOU Warpstorm?

	03-10-2002 02:00									#14
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Calc II> Didn't see you post when writing mine

	03-10-2002 02:36									#15
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6/2/1? thats completely absolutely overpowered no mather what and 60 cost is nothing for a unit like this.

You get the same attack strenght of calvary, repeat calvary. If in the calvary age is calvary much stronger then all defenses of that age, even riflemen are not a problem for them and with some artilery can you take down infalitry with it. 6 defense is ONLY 2 lower then marines! and that in the time of bows and sword!

"But they aren't that mobile!" can you say but that isn't true, ships can make them very mobile! Yes you can only get to coast cities that way but once you have those are you close enough towards the inland cities to simply walk to them(maybe put some knights with them to defend them).

And if you really want iron, can you get iron! If needed simply pay tons for it, it is worth it! Otherwise simply mass 30 horsmen to take an iron resource(it is worth it!).

6 attack in a time 4 attack is the norm PLUS attack from ships in a time nobody else can do that IS overpowered no mather what.

But I think and hope that number is wrong. If you don't believe me that they are overpowered can we do a test after release(if it is indeed 6 attack): we do 10 games with all the time different equally skilled people, 1 player plays with vikings the other with something else, I'm sure vikings will win more then rest!

	03-10-2002 03:05									#16
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They are not more overpowered than Immortals. Immortals even have a decent defense for their age. PLUS when you race for invention you opponents will race for magnetism so they can have a good time sinking your galleys of vikings. Privateers anyone?

Berserkers will be VERY easy to counter if you know what you're doing. But they'll kill the AI big time.

	03-10-2002 03:13									#17
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BTW... it's mobility (the ability to take anemy cities without waiting a turn i their territory) that make Cav EXTREMELY strong. Chinese Riders (4/3/3) are almost as good. And i would prefer a Rider over a cavalry with two moves, any time.

	03-10-2002 03:14									#18
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect PLUS when you race for invention you opponents will race for magnetism so they can have a good time sinking your galleys of vikings. Privateers anyone?

invention is on the path to magnetism

	03-10-2002 03:27									#19
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Chinese Riders (4/3/3) are almost as good. And i would prefer a Rider over a cavalry with two moves, any time.

I disagree just like I prefere tanks(move 2) over cavalry(move 3). I already find longbowman reasonable units. The only way to counter berserkers is attacking them before they attack you but on land can you try to let them move over high defensive terain protected with a few knights and over sea will it most likley be to late when you see a ship. The chances are low you have a big attacking navy ready just at the point the vikings attack and if I play vikings will I do it big with many ships so a few near ships won't be enough to counter that, that would be especial a problem if you have a big coastline.

	03-10-2002 03:34									#20
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But i still believe there is SOME kind of counter.

	03-10-2002 03:37									#21
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Sure there is, sink their galleys. This means using the bizarre strategy of actually building a navy.

	03-10-2002 04:29									#22
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The 6/2/1 berserk isnt gonn abe too bad, if they tweak all exisiting units... and thats exactly wat i heard they were gonna do

	03-10-2002 05:30									#23
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I was pretty sure it was going to be 5/2/1... where did you find 6/2/1?

	03-10-2002 05:39									#24
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Its no worse than the swordsmen unit, like that you have to attack it first where its weak in defence.

The Celt Swordsman is worse than theberserker.. its a 4/2/2 unit , which is going to create chaos.. and coming so early it will be hard to stop the celts getting iron.

I still think UU's should be at least twice as expensive as their counterpart unit, and the unit they replace should be buildable still if you don't want a golden age yet.

	03-10-2002 07:34									#25
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i heard celts are 3/2/2

Awww i give up, its pointless in argueing if we don't know if firaxis changed it at the last min and mongols could have sonic beam weapons and vikings the pimp mobile that sacks your city of all your female population. We'll have to see until game comes out.

	03-10-2002 08:13									#26
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if u goto civ3.com there is a pic of gallic swormen with stat of 4/2/2 three pics after there is a pic of same unit with 3/2/2

	03-10-2002 09:16									#27
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i think in PTW, against humans, you're going to see a rise of large navies, even early on. i could easily see Galley Armadas.

	03-10-2002 18:08									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II i heard celts are 3/2/2 Awww i give up, its pointless in argueing if we don't know if firaxis changed it at the last min and mongols could have sonic beam weapons and vikings the pimp mobile that sacks your city of all your female population. We'll have to see until game comes out.

Ooh baby, I want that Viking Love Machine. Fear my fuzzy steering wheel.

	03-10-2002 21:04									#29
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Jimmy Kimble: "Homo-bile?"
Pimp : "No, Ho-Mobile"
Jimmy: "Ohhhhh~ I see"

-The Man show-

	05-10-2002 03:11									#30
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In the CFC chat, Firaxis just said that the Berserk was 6/2/1 amphib 70 shields no resource.