03-10-2002 22:44									#61
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Yeah rah, I know; and eagles may soar but ferrets don't get sucked into jet engines.

	03-10-2002 22:51									#62
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Slowwhand, since Fastow is out on bail and you feel so strongly about him, why don't you just go and kill him.

Otherwise, just cease your whine.

We will be here defending your right to a fair trial and speey execution.

	03-10-2002 22:56									#63
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Yeah rah, I know; and eagles may soar but ferrets don't get sucked into jet engines.

Not sure if I should feel insulted or complimented that ferrets aren't dumb enough to be sucked into jet engines.

Your initial rage seems to come from that he was able to pay his bail and most common criminals can't. First, most common criminals aren't assessed bail of FIVE MILLION dollars, so the judge was trying to show him just how special he was. Second there is a whole side business for BAIL BOND LOANS. Unless the person is a REAL REAL BAD scum bag, it is quite easy to get a bail bond loan, and MOST common criminals are eventually released on bond. So, I don't really see what your problem with this is. Actually you should be happy the the judge set the bail so high to make a point of their disgust.

RAH

	03-10-2002 22:56									#64
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I find it pathetic that people make jokes about some group of guys who have literally ruined so many people.
You like him so much, go bail him out, Jimmy.
That way he doesn't have to use their money.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 04-10-2002 at 00:37

	03-10-2002 22:59									#65
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And Rah,
Part of the judicial system sucking is that it was all too willing to take the standard 10% of the investor's and worker's money.
Did you read that part, or just come running when Ming called ?

	03-10-2002 23:15									#66
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Yeah, like Ming needs my help arguing this.

No, I was responding to your second post in the thread that struck me odd, but I was busy in meetings this morning to respond.

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Exactly. Them that's gots it, by whatever method, keeps it; those that don't, can rot. Filthy freaking orange thief.

And just pointing out that very few actually rot. Most common criminals make bail. Most prostitutes' bail is paid by their pimp. Wonder where that money came from There are many other similar examples that I won't bore you with them. It's really no different in this case except for the size of the bail.

I hope they get this guy big time, but I'll leave that up to a judge and jury, since this is America and not Iraq.

RAH

	03-10-2002 23:24									#67
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The main differences being that the "john" got what he paid for and the investors/employees didn't ,that hookers should in fact be illegal, and the thief the thread is about will really do any real "time".
Your analogy is flawed.
I'm dropping it, as I'm surrounded by white collar thief sympathizers.

	03-10-2002 23:32									#68
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I'm dropping it, as I'm surrounded by white collar thief sympathizers.

Again slow... WHERE DO ANY OF US SAY THAT THE GUY IS INNOCENT...

Please feel free to quote anybody that thinks the guy isn't guilty or doesn't deserve a strong sentence.

So stop this white collar thief sympathizer crap... you aren't making any sense.

The only difference here is that you seem to just want him to be declared guilty without a trial.

And the rest of us are willing to wait until a trial proves him guilty. Because that's the way it works in this county.

	03-10-2002 23:35									#69
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Wrong. What I don't want is for the s.o.b. to use his ill-gotten gains to make bail.
So he sits in county a while, big damned deal.
He'll be out soon enough, stealing again, assuming he doesn't get to go to a country club.
It's all the same. People still ruined.

Not even addressing the precedent this sets.
He's not the only one from Enron, nor is Enron the only company caught, emphasis caught here, cheating and ruining people.

But let's worry about serious things instead.
Hookers and funny avatars and crap like that.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 03-10-2002 at 23:44

	03-10-2002 23:45									#70
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Wrong. What I don't want is for the s.o.b. to use his ill-gotten gains to make bail. So he sits in county a while, big damned deal. He'll be out soon enough, stealing again, assuming he doesn't get to go to a country club. It's all the same. People still ruined.

First... no matter how angry you are, it doesn't change the fact that the his ill gotten gains from Enron don't make up is entire net worth. He has far more money than that, and while you might want to think that every penny he has ever made has been done so illegally, it is not the case.

Second... you have no clue what the outcome of his trial will be. As I stated before, and truely believe, he is going to get screwed big time, as he deserves. The justice department wants to make a statement that this type of activity can not continue. If they give him a short sentence at a country club type prison, it won't send the message that is needed. So I look forward to him receiving one of the longest and harshest penalities ever seen before for white collar crime.

And if and when he is proven guilty, that will open the door for strong civil actions to be taken against him and the other officers of Enron by people who were robbed of their money.

	03-10-2002 23:45									#71
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You never know. If he's found guilty, you can bet the lawyers will start circling for possible CIVIL suits. They seem very popular these days , and maybe some of those people hurt will have a chance to get some of their money back.


(cross post with ming, I guess we do think alike )

	03-10-2002 23:49									#72
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I can't believe I'm even going to say this, but where is Che when I need him?

	03-10-2002 23:50									#73
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quote: What I don't want is for the s.o.b. to use his ill-gotten gains to make bail.

Then what would be your proposed solution? Would you deny him bail, end of story, would you seize all his assets prior to a trial on the basis that they SEEM to be ill-gained, or what? I can sympathize with your feeling that you don't like him using money that you believe is stolen, I'm just curious as to what your method would be to prevent that.

	03-10-2002 23:50									#74
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Yes, David. I said that.

	03-10-2002 23:52									#75
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Then it that case, are you in favor of abandoning the system of "innocent until proven guilty"?

A simple yes or no will do.

	03-10-2002 23:54									#76
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No.

	03-10-2002 23:57									#77
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I personally would have no problem with the Government stepping in and seizing any assets in equal value to what the alledged illegal actions gained him.

But slow... even if the government did that... He would still be able to make bail. He has far more assests at his disposal than that.

As far as your contention that he should be denied bail, on what basis. Again, bail is only denied when a person is a serious threat to society, (He is no position to rip more people off) and if he is considered a flight risk. He had to surrender his passport, and you can bet you sweet life that he is being watched.

	04-10-2002 00:00									#78
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I think it's been proven in abundance what watchers we are.

	04-10-2002 01:18									#79
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Why can't we get it through Slowwhand's thick skull that there is a premise of innocence until proven guilty in this country.

No one, NO ONE has backed Slow.... I don't think that Che would agree with you, Slow.

	04-10-2002 02:15									#80
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Ill gotten gains can be siezed by the goverment in a legal proceeding seperate from the crimminal trial.

	04-10-2002 02:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You don't listen do you. Ok, Der Furher, lets throw everyone in jail and consider them guilty before the trial starts where they have to prove their innocence. No Western legal system in the entire world works that way. Sounds like you'd prefer to have the USSR back.

Can I invoke Godwins law? (though, technically, there was no mention of Hitler)

	04-10-2002 02:34									#82
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quote: Bush could scream bloody murder. He could tell the Enron executives to put that $1.1 billion in stock sales into a pool for Enron employees who now have nothing. He could tell Kenneth Lay, the chairman and chief executive, to give back the more than $30 million he got in stock sales. He could tick off the names of each and every executive and then say..... Give back the money."

Since when did the US become a dictatorship? (He asks knowing that this could be an invitation to a discussion of FL 2000)

	04-10-2002 02:34									#83
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Yes, you can. Mods please lock the thread.

	04-10-2002 03:14									#84
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Lock the thread because you don't agree?

Last edited by SlowwHand on 04-10-2002 at 03:24

	04-10-2002 03:15									#85
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Fastow's Bail Terms - From the NYT 02-10-2002

Fastow, 40, appeared briefly before U.S. Magistrate Judge Marcia Crone, where Weissmann outlined a $5 million bond agreement nearly as complex as the deals Fastow allegedly struck at Enron.

It called for Fastow to post $3 million, allow prosecutors to freeze $11 million more and turn in deeds three of his homes and that of his parents. Due to the fact that Fastow's wife, Lea, and parents were not present to sign the bond, Crone forced him to stay in federal custody until they appeared a few hours later.