04-10-2002 10:53									#1
	Imperial Dip 50: Fall 1873 Results Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I tried to count up builds but to be honest my brain is so tired from figuring out exactly what happened in the pacific that I kept on losing count whenever I tried. Well check things over for errors and get those Brit retreats in!
Map-making and SC-counting would also be appreciated.

GM note: I'm making NMRed countries (Austria and Holland) go into turtle-mode.


Holland
F Ngu H
F GuManaar-Amn
F E.Indian S F Mld
F Mld S F E.Indian
F Jva H


Austria
A Ruh-Hol
A Kie S A Ruh-Hol
A (place west of bavaria whose name I can't make out) S A Kie
A Rou S A Ruh-Hol (support cut, unit dislodged and destroyed)
A (french province south of holland whose name I can't make out) S A Rou (support cut)
A Mar S A VLC (support cut)
A VLC S A Mar
A Pie S A Mar
F Lyo S A VLC
F W.Med S A Vlc
F Crs S F W.Med
F Tyr S F W.Med
F Nap S F Sic
F Adr S F Sic
F Sic S F Adr
A Glc S A Wrs
A Wrs S A Mos
A Mos S A Wrs

To:CSA, Rednecks! Haven't you learned yet, get your gutrot junks back across the sea where you belong and take limpy **** Mexican with you.
To:Mexico, I have heard from Longstreet that Mexico is growing too big and are losing control so the CSA is about to take control of the bean country. In the meantime back off of my waters also, or I will sink those Spanish Galleons you sold.
To:England, way to keep fighting on and I will support you to the end.
thanks boshkovich for taking over.
Defiant

China Defiant
A-PRM S A-GRG
A-OMS S A-GRG
A-ORN S A-BKH - KHV
A-BKH - KHV (move fails)
A-KSL - BKH (move fails)
A-KRA - KSL (move fails)
A-IRK - KRA (move fails)
A-KSH S A-KSL - BKH
A-TIB S A-KSH
A-BRM - HOLD
A-YUT - HOLD
A-SIA - HOLD
A-CCH - HOLD
F-G.SIAM - SUNDRA
F-S.CHINA S F-G.SIAM - SUNDRA
F-PHILIPPINE - BISMARK (move fails)
F-CRL S F-PHILIPPINE - BISMARK
F-IZU S F-PHILIPPINE - BISMARK
F-FM S F-S.CHINA - PHILIPPINE
F-E.CHINA - PHILIPPINE
F-KAM - BERING (move fails)
F-KURIL S F-KAM - BERING
A-VLA - KAM (move fails)
F-YELLOW S F- IZU
F-EDO S F-KURIL
F-SAP S F-KURIL


Turk
A Sev S A Grg
A Bku S A Grg
F Black S A Grg
A Teh - Khv (move fails)
A Afg S A Teh - Khv
A Tbr - Arm
A Syr - Cai
F Red C A Mec - Sud
A Mec - Sud
F Hdr - Persian
A Nej - Mec
F Ionian - Trp
F Tun S F Ionian - Trp (invalid support)
F Aeg C A Sof - Trp
F Ionian C A Sof - Trp
A Sof - Trp
A Con H
F Mrc - Gb (unit dislodged and destroyed)
F Alg - Mrc (move fails)
F HoAfrica S F M. Channel - Sey
F M. Channel - Sey
A Moz - Trn
A Ctn - Dml (move fails)
F Som - Ken (move fails)
F Ken - Moz (move fails)
A Gcs - pray for mercy (unit dislodged and destroyed)

Mex
Viva Senor Ruff and his proud CSA!! I am proud to be considered his
compatriot in arms.

Turkey for you, turkey for me. I like turkey while watching TV. Gooble it
up as quick as you can, before the Mexican and Confederate man can.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!! Now, be
gone silly Englishman or I'll be forced to taunt you again!

Why do I even bother insulting the Dutch? Because ole wooden shoes is such a
dike.

Q: Whats the difference between a chinese woman and a newspaper?
A: The newspaper costs 5 cents more.

1. F Westerlies s CSA F HAW - W. Pacific
2. F GoCalifornia - E. Pacific
3. F SW Pacific - A. Pacific
4. F Drake - A. Atlantic
5. F FLK - Drake
6. F CoArgentina holds
7. F B Current c A RDJ - DML
8. A OLI - URU
9. A RDJ - DML (move fails)
10. A LPA - AMA
11. A BRA - PRA
12. F NE Trades s CSA F Sargasso
13. F M Atlantic s CSA A MDO - GCS (invalid support)
14. F S Atlantic c A RDJ - DML
15. F B. Current c A RDJ - DML
16. F Good Hope - CTN
17. A BOT s F Good Hope - CTN
18. A RHO s A CNG - MOZ
19. A CNG - MOZ
20. A OKN - CNG
21. F MAD s F W. Indian
22. F A. Indian s F W. Indian
23. F Sunda - SRW
24. F SE Trades - JAVA
25. F Timor s F SE Trades - JAVA
26. F PRT - SE Trades
27. F Barrier s F PRT - SE Trades
28. F QUE - NTR
29. F Coral s CSA F Bismark (invalid support)
30. F Tasman - QUE
31. F NZE - Tasman


Britian
F-Hlg > North (move fails)
F-Skg S F-Hlg > North
F-Den S F-Hlg > North
F-Norway > Norweigan (move fails)
A-Fin S A-Stp
A-Stp S A-Fin
F-G.Bot S A-Stp
A-Grg H
A-Oma H
F-Arabian > Mld (move fails)
F-NE Monsoon S F-Arabian > Mld
F-Sey S F-NE Monsoon (invalid support, support cut, unit dislodged and destroyed)
A-Krc S A-Kas
A-Raj > Mdh
A-Kas S A-Krc
A-Mds H
F-Cmb > Bnk/ec
A-Mls > Sum (move fails)
F-Srw H (unit dislodged, can retreat to Bor or disband)
F-Java C A-Mls > Sum (unit dislodged can retreat to Sum, Bor or disband)

Press:

Viva Mexico! Your sailors are true warriors, and a pleasure to sail with
unlike the mindless junk bound fools under the Chinese flags, the toothless
whores wrapped in the Union Jack, the cowardly Dutch Boys, the vermin
infested mongrels serving the filthy heathen Turk, or the jackbooted thugs of
the Arch Duck.

++

RICHMOND, VIRGINA - October 1, 1873- President Jefferson Ruffhaus VIII
addressed the Confederate States Legeslature in an move designed to gain a
declaration of war against the Ottoman Empire and Imperial Austria, as these
one proud peoples are now but rogue nations have aligning themselves with the
forces of evil. The resolution was passed with an overwhelming majority by
the Senate.

After the cermnonies the Prussian Kaiser in exile attending and an invited
guest of the President offered his approval and encouragement remarking,
"It's going to be fun wathcing the Divine Order cower like thedogs their
Chinese masters devour for supper. "

CSA
A Atlanta - Bahamas
A Ontario - Greenland
F Hudson Bay convoys A Ontario - Greenland
F Greenland - Barents Sea
F Northern Passage supports F Greenland - Barents Sea
F Dublin - hold
F Norwegian Sea supports F North Sea - hold (support cut)
F Edinburg supports F North Sea - hold
F London supports F North Sea - hold
F North Sea supports A Paris - Rouen (support cut)
F Nantes supports A Paris - Rouen
A Paris - Rouen
A Bordeaux - Marseilles (move fails)
A Toledo - Valencia
F Gibraltar - Morocco
F Strait of Gibraltar supports F Gibraltar - Morocco
F Canary Islands supports F Gibraltar - Morocco
A Azores Islands - hold
F North Atlantic Ocean - Bay of Biscay
F Sargasso Sea - North Atlantic Ocean
F Eastern Carribean Sea - Sargasso Sea
A TWR - FZZ
A TIR - TWR
A MDO supports A Monrovia - Grain Coast
A Monrovia - Grain Coast
F DMK - Ivory Coast
F Gulf of Guinea supports F DMK - Ivory Coast
A Washington State - hold
A Alaska - hold
F Bering Sea supports Mexican F Westerlies - Kuril Trench (invalid support, support cut)
F North Pacific Ocean supports F Bering Sea - hold
F Hawaii - Western Pacific Ocean (move fails)
F Western Pacific Ocean - Bismark Sea (move fails)
F Equatorial Countercurrent supports F Western Pacific Ocean - Bismark Sea
F IJA supports F Western Pacific Ocean - Bismark Sea
F Bismark Sea - Luzon
F Luzon - Luzon Strait
F Mindanao supports F Luzon - Luzon Strait
F Celebes Sea supports Mexican F Sunda Sea - Sarawak

	04-10-2002 15:16									#2
	Remove this text

I know we've had this argument before, but I thought NMRed countries just held rather than support each other, as per the rules? I don't see why Holland should get the benefit of double support because he failed to turn in moves....

	04-10-2002 15:54									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I will have the map up this afternoon, and will attempt some method of accounting of SCs. As for the NMRs my preference has always been to place nations NMRing into civil disorder. Snowfire had another opinion, and Boshko has one too. While I feel strongly about my way, I don't want to offend a GM doing us a favor. In an effort to keep the game going I bit my tongue when the dislodged Dutch units in civil disorder were unexpectedly allowed to retreat. At the same time, Orange_1 has a point in that he expected the Dutch units to hold in place not support. I sure don't have the answer here, and I'm not telling Orange_1 to drop his petition, just offering my objective perspective.

	04-10-2002 15:56									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Kudos to Ruff for not only submitting moves for 3 zillion units, he actually figures out the names of the provinces too...

As his GM in the CGN Imperial dip game, it does bring some joy to the joyless process of resolving moves

Ohh, and Kudos to Boshko for GM'ing

	04-10-2002 15:59									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

BTW, ruff and orange, I support Boshkos way. I think a PBEM game should be as close to a FTF game as possible, and minimizing the effects of NMR's is one way of doing that...

	04-10-2002 22:36									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

it's a bit odd that Austria (after one NMR?) is being put into Civil Disorder

	05-10-2002 02:03									#7
	Put an end to popups!

With respect to Austria's NMR, I am not calling for HDS to be replaced, and Austria sent to civil disorder. I meant that my preference is that NMRing nations get stuck with all units hold than random temporary replacement orders or an all units support situation.

I see the aversion to this, but I just disagree with the notion that random moves make it more fair. It's all depends on who's point of view, and game dynamics.

Anyway, I'm not lodging a complaint, just offering my opinion to show consistency in a situation were my opinion actually benefits my enemy rather than my nation.

	05-10-2002 04:19									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Here is the Fall 1873 Map. As always please check for accuracy, thanks.


http://www.geocities.com/ruffhaus8/IMPERIAL/F1873.gif


Also, here are some observations made as I updated the map. Would the GM and players please review these and comment as necessary?

* Austrian A Metz (is the unnamed unit in France)
* Austrian A Vienna (unordered)
* Austrian A Silesia (unordered)
* Chinese F East China Sea - Phillipine Sea (bounces with Phillipine Sea)
* CSA A Toledo - Valencia (fails 1v3)
* English A Georgia (unordered)
* Turkish A Baghdad (unordered)
* Turkish F Ionian Sea (ordered twice, convention says unit holds and does nothing)
* Turkish A Cape Town (dislodged, destroyed)

Supply Center/Unit Analysis

Austria: 22 supply centers, 21 units = 1 BUILD
China: 26 supply centers, 26 units = NO CHANGE
CSA: 42 supply centers, 39 units = 3 BUILDS
ENGLAND: 19 supply centers, 20 units = 1 DISBAND (pending retreats)
HOLLAND: 6 supply centers, 5 units = BUILD 1 (pending retreats)
MEXICO: 34 supply centers, 31 units = 3 BUILDS
TURKEY: 22 suply centers, 23 units = 1 DISBAND

Last edited by RUFFHAUS 8 on 10-10-2002 at 02:58

	05-10-2002 08:10									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

you wanna have a look at that map, cowboy?

	06-10-2002 00:15									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

What's wrong with the map?

	06-10-2002 01:43									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Defiant - are you just trying to prove that your the most overrated player at ACS? If so, keep it up! You're doing a flawless job of it

	07-10-2002 07:35									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Why did my convoy fail?

9. A RDJ - DML (move fails)
14. F S Atlantic c A RDJ - DML
15. F B. Current c A RDJ - DML

	07-10-2002 13:18									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well I am lodging a complaint because I wouldn't have made those orders had I known that NMRed countries would be rewarded for not turning in orders. For some reason, I thought we would be following the rules of Diplomacy when playing this game, but obviously I was wrong.

I'm not saying I've never NMRed in my life, but I expect to be punished for it when I do because it's my mistake. By signing on to these games, you make a commitment to turn in moves and if you don't, your enemies should benefit. I just don't understand this random moves or "all support each other" stuff. In my eyes, that's just unfair.

I'm not saying either that HDS should be replaced after 1 NMR, just that, by NMRing, his units should suffer for not having orders.

I like everyone am very grateful that Boshko has taken over the GMing of this game and I'm not trying to make the whole thing harder, I just disagree with this one particular rule.

	08-10-2002 03:25									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I would have to agree with the_orange1. An "NMR" translates literally to "no moves recorded". I say the player receives a warning and all units hold, as per the rules of diplomacy. What if he had a "NMR" on his winter turn? Would you have built a unit or units for him? Plus, why did my convoy fail?

	08-10-2002 04:20									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

i agree with Ruff and Gerwald...maybe for future turns?

	08-10-2002 04:41									#16
	Got spare money?

Gerwald, speaking as the mapmaker interpreting the adjudication, I believe that your convoy failed because the Turkish delagation from their Cape Town consulate met with your Brazilian based emissaries and quarreled inconclusively on the merits (or lack their-of) of an extremely hypothetical and futuristic military action involving two nations that do not currently exist (USA and Iraq).

All that said, should an insane evil depotic dictatoral tyrant rise in Bagdad to threaten the safety and security of the world 130 years from now, President Jefferson Davis Ruffhaus VII remains confident that he Confederacy and Mexico will rise to smite out oppression and deliver justice as they do today.

Sic Semper Tyranis!

	08-10-2002 08:16									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

When will the map reflect my convoy?

	09-10-2002 02:08									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Are you daft, man! Look at the orders. You got bounced by Turkish A Cape Town. I'll try BIG letters next time, eh?

	10-10-2002 02:32									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

ya there was a bounce, hence no convy
in all the games I GMed I never make units go into civil disorder, people should never ever expect their enemies to just sit there. should have made their clearer, sorry...

	10-10-2002 05:05									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

Map updated with retreats:


http://www.geocities.com/ruffhaus8/IMPERIAL/F1873.gif