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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
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"In that case what I don't understand is what the govt is trying to do: force the unionists to accept non union workers so that the lockout will stop, or force the shipping companies stop the lock-out without any change in the status?"
Axi: Pres. Bush can order a cooling off period of 90 days, after which, if they still can't work out a deal among themselves, they go into binding arbitration to work out their differences (I think).
In this situation, the union believes that it would lose big time in an arbitration, especially since the union cannot leverage its other assets--e.g., the fact that so many other industries rely on the container ports.
Last edited by DanS on 06-10-2002 at 22:39
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Felch
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Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:22
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If longshoremen get paid more because of hazardous duty (something I accept) then why should data entry clerks get the same benefits? I'm opposed to people initiating coercion to acheive their aims, and if people paid attention they'd note it was the unions who started this scuffle by organizing work slowdowns.
Instead of workers working at what they were best at, they were randomly assigned jobs by the union, as an act of protest. Now fine, it's better to do that than a whole lot of other things, and if the unions had a good cause I wouldn't be bothered by it, but it's wrong to get really high wages for doing a job badly.
I'm sorry, I just can't feel bad for people who make more than anybody in my family. Only my dad and brother come close in income to the lowest paid longshoremen, and we're all college educated (well, I'm in the process).
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Adam Smith
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Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
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MtG:quote:
no way Mexican and Canadian port facilities can take that much capacity. |
Right. LA / Long Beach alone is something like 10x Vancouver / Roberts Bank. I dont know much about the Mexican port facilities, but their rail and truck links are decrepit.
Zkibber and Others:
The lockout was because the union was staging a work slowdown while still under contract. Labor relations have never been great on either side of this industry, but the facts are what they are.
Faded Glory:quote:
I also hate companies who rip us off charging 29 bucks for a 19 cent shirt and keep the difference |
Part but by no means all of that difference is the cost of transportation, including dockworkers salaries.
Chegitz:quote:
It's true that Dockworkers get paid a lot of money. It's also true that dockerworkers have a very dangerous jobs, and are paid well to compensate them for the risk to life and limb. |
Nice try. But why do dock workers earn so much more than other workers who are exposed to similar risks (ie working outdoors with heavy equipment)? Dock workers are paid far more than truckdrivers, train crewmen, construction workers, deep or strip coal miners, agricultural workers, etc, etc, etc.
quote:
It was high union wages that turn this country around. High union wages mean more money is in circulation, which means more jobs are created. All sorts of secondary jobs are created by workers getting good wages: construction, because more workers can buy houses; autos; because more workers can buy cars; etc.
Unlike Reagan's voodoo economics, union wages actually do create a trickle down effect. When those jobs dry up and go to Mexico, so do the secondary effects of those jobs. When all the auto factories shut down in Flint, so did housing construction, grociers, malls, etc. |
Please learn some economics. If I buy a TV made in Mexico, I get a TV and somebody in Mexico gets $300. There are only two things they can do with those $300: paper the walls of their houses, or use them to buy american goods and services. Assuming its the latter, the multiplier effect is the same regardless of whether its a US or Mexican job.
*Throws Chegitz a poker chip* 
Gatekeeper:quote:
now that the BNSF can't take the unit trains filled w/grain to the West Coast ports |
Where exactly are you located? Many grain shippers also have the option of shipping to the Gulf Coast, though transportation costs are higher that way.
Axi:quote:
Oh come on MtG, how could I know, living half way around the world, how much these guys get paid? |
Then why did you post???
Note:
Adam Smith spent the weekend learning to spell "crane" properly.
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Adam Smith
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Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Sten Sture Effectively both the Union and the Company are monopolies who can charge unbelievable rates because of the exorbitant cost of going around them. This is particularly fascinating because the primary asset they are monopolising is a government constructed deep water port, built and subsidized with taxpayer's money. |
The Pacific Maritime Association is the labor negotiating arm of the ocean carriers. The carriers belong to the Pacific Carriers Conference, which is effectively a government sanctioned cartel. Under the law which created the Federal Maritime Administration, carriers get an antitrust exemption which allows them to jointly discuss rates, routes, capacity, terms of service, etc. .... discussions which would get them thrown in jail if they were in virtually any other industry. The only saving grace is that while it is profitable to join a cartel, it is even more porfitable to cheat on one. Several carriers, such as Evergreen, make a habit of cheating on the collusive agreements, which pushes prices closer toward the competitive level.
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06-10-2002 20:13
I don't think you can be considered partisan when the Dems (ie, Clinton/Gore) would be doing the exact same thing in this situation.
But no union is going to cave in on this point, and it's a ridiculous powerplay for managment to even attempt. 
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