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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > AC-Democracy Team Game-Archive > Discussion: Switch to Planned and/or Democracy (when we get them)?
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MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 07:59
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Discussion: Switch to Planned and/or Democracy (when we get them)? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Although we are a little off this sort of decision (we do not yet have the ability to change to either of these), we are 6 turns away from changing to research Planetary Networks, which gives us a Planned Economy choice, and the one after is Ethical Calculus, which gives us Democracy.

Analysis:

We are currently at -1 Efficiency, which effects both our tech accumulation rate and our energy generation, but not by much with the size bases we have.

Planned Economy
This will give us +2 Growth, +1 Industry and -2 Efficiency

New stats: -3 Efficiency, +2 Growth, +1 Industry

Efficiency is harder to quantify, but our bases will grow 20% faster and we will build 10% faster.

With the current state of NA, this amounts to building the WP in 15 turns, not 17 (a 20 mineral saving), and (from testing with another game), the base grows in 6 turns, not 12 as crrent. This seems to come from a reduced # of nuts required to gorw - reduced by ten to be precise.

However the efficiency hit will cause slower research and energy accumulation. If anyone could accurately quantify these effects I would appreciate it.

Democracy

This gives +2 Efficiency, +2 Growth and -2 Support

We would then reach +1 Efficiency, +2 Growth and -2 Support.

Our efficiency actually improves here, meaning some small increase in research rate and energy accumulation. The Growth increases also, exactly the same as for the Planned Economy. The -2 Support means only 1 unit is supported free per base, and there are no free minerals for bases (whatever that means ). Each of our bases except Antioch and New Suez would lose an extra mineral in support. This would slow our construcion of the WP from 17 turns to 19 turns.

Both Planned and Democracy
With both of these choices we would reach

+4 Growth, +1 Industry, -1 Efficiency (same as now), -2 Support

The effects of this would be to dramatically speed base growth, by 40%. Mineral costs would be down by 10%, but we would lose one free mineral per base with more than one unit to support. For NA, these two effects basically cancel, and we build the WP in 17 turrns still. The effect of growth is to decrease the nuts needed by 20, meaning NA and TBIBTU would grow in 1 turn, not 12 and 7 respectively.

Overall, we will soon have the opportunity to

1. increase Growth and bulding speed at the cost of a very low Efficiency;
2. increase our Growth and Efficiency basically at the expense of 1 mineral per base; or
3. increase our Growth a LOT at the expense of 1 mineral per base. (Industry increase essentially compensated for the -2 Support).

Please, what do you think will be best for us?

Personally I like the idea of a massive growth as soon as we can manage it, that way we can rapidly build CPs and colonise as much of Planet as possible. I would hope for a switch to Planned ASAP, as long as we are not producing too much energy by then, and a switch to Democracy ASAP, unconditionally. But perhaps it would be best if we waited until Democracy, then switched to both at the same time in order to negate the Efficiency loss of the Planned Economy.

Of course, these changes will cause a slight Energy cost - maybe 32 or so?

Mr. President is offline Mr. President
Emperor
The leaves that are green turn to brown
Jul 2001
time: 15:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 12:29 Visit Mr. President's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

If we're on Thinker, I believe the cost is 32 for one SE switch, so doing both at the same time would cost upwards of 100.

I'd say only go Planned if we also go Democracy. I don't like the sound of -3 Efficiency. The +1 Industry would always benefit, and, though I like Free Market economics, using Demo-Planned-Wealth (when we get it) could get us out of sight of any competitors.

Main_Brain is offline Main_Brain
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Economic World Center
Jul 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 15:02
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Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Free Base Minerals means that each new founded Base starts with 10 Minerals Already Producted.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 16:36
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mr. president doenst matter how much SE changes you make in one time the all cost 32 together

Method is offline Method
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Feb 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 19:27
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Demo/planned/wealth when we get them

not planned without demo though.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 19:29
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I agree with TKG not planned with out demo and not demo without planned

Maniac is offline Maniac
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Jul 1999
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 20:21
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So will we go Demo/Planned once we can implement both policies, or will we wait until we have a decent colony and the 10 free minerals become less important?

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 05-10-2002 20:55
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Put an end to popups!

i think we will have a decent colony (around +10 bases) during the time that we need to get he techs so as soon as possible

Lemmy is offline Lemmy
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Dec 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-10-2002 21:25 Visit Lemmy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
mr. president doenst matter how much SE changes you make in one time the all cost 32 together

on Talent it 16 for 1 change, and 54 for 2 changes, i'm sure there is a formula in there, but it is cheaper to do one change per turn, then all in once.

Main_Brain is offline Main_Brain
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Jul 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 06-10-2002 02:32
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Well but we wont get those two Prerequisite Techs in one Turn =
Planned isnt really a good First-Choice -3 Efficency makes me Shudder byebye research?
Better go Demo first.
Granted we'll have to pay twice but who wants to switch soon after that two Changes anyway?
Times not yet Ripe for your FM

Method is offline Method
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/me goes to France
Feb 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 06-10-2002 02:55
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turnchat update:

neither planetary networks or ethical calculus were available, so we went with industrial economics.

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