07-10-2002 02:42									#1
	Dilemman of Galley Exploration and Crossing Borders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here is my dilemma. I discover map making and build galleys to discover new worlds. My galley can only go in coastal waters. When I find a civilization, if I pass in its coatal water, I upset it and it fights me later. If I don't cross its water borders, it does not fight me, but I end up not being able to use my galleys to discover new lands!

Can somebody explain to me a strategy around this dilemma? I don't like to exchange permission to cross in each other's territory. If there was a separate permission to cross national coastal waters, I would have granted. But the permission is for both land and sea and I hate to see the potential enemy at the gates of my capital.

	07-10-2002 02:47									#2
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first off, thats how it works. they don't want you exploring what they know (or what they'll know first), and same goes for you.

why would they let you find a new island and colonize it before they did?

anyway, from my expierence, if you're only in for 1 turn, it's ok. longer and longer pisses them off.

	07-10-2002 02:54									#3
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I try to avoid them as much as possible and then ignore them when I can not. I just smile and say sorry I will move and keep going. Some times I will not move all my points to time my move to not end in their area.

	07-10-2002 07:42									#4
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I forgot to mention that this becomes a problem at an advanced stage of the game where the other civilizations' territory/borders have expanded to occupy all/most coastal waters of a continent.

Early in the game, sure you can hide for a turn or two in a coastal tile that is not a territory of any civilization.

In a recent game, I had powerful neighbors that I did not want to antagonize. So they asked me to retreat 3 galleys, and they were taken to the nearest coastal water tile that is not part of any territory and that is 12 moves away from my coastal waters. This is where I got stuck for 200 years afraid to move until I had to ammass an army to fight the babylonians and move my 3 galleys back to motherland through the babylonian waters.

	07-10-2002 08:10									#5
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Negotiate an ROP... usually not a big deal.

	07-10-2002 09:07									#6
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Well I can not give any blanket comments, too many things could change it. One thing for sure, I will not be getting any RoP's. Late you should be past galleys and be able to go anywhere on the ocean. Most likely I will ignore them and let them decalre war. Attackering AI's do not fare well, even when stronger. If they come, I may invite others to aid me.

	07-10-2002 11:26									#7
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If I foresee the need of naval exploration, I will do my best to build the Great Lighthouse, which allows Galleys enter sea squares (increasing their movement by 1 at the same time). Solves your problem, as ancient cities seldom have culture enough to control even the sea squares. Also, it helps Galleys greatly to cross larger bodies of water... usually, you will be able to find a "strait" either consisting of sea tiles, or at least separated by less than four ocean tiles. Great Lighthouse is one of my favourite GWs (I often play on continental maps, where it is even more important to discover the overseas lands).

	07-10-2002 17:11									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Explorer579 This is where I got stuck for 200 years afraid to move until I had to ammass an army to fight the babylonians and move my 3 galleys back to motherland through the babylonian waters.

200 years or 200 turns? If it was 200 turns why didn't you research astronomy?