08-10-2002 09:26									#31
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Galleons can move faster than Galleys / Caravels, so by having existing naval units in harbors when we get Navigation so they can be upgraded immedately we'll cut a few turns off traveling the lost distance.

Great idea joncnunn

	08-10-2002 09:59									#32
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn We're still better off sending Caravels into the ocean than Galleys. (Lower sink rates.)

IIRC, all sinking possibility is based solely on tech, and the game doesn't distinguish between units.

So I don't see any advantage to Caravels (aside from allowing some harbor cities to build infrastructure sooner).

	08-10-2002 12:10									#33
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We won't send ships that might sink into an ocean.

	08-10-2002 12:16									#34
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Har... Gimme a ship and I'll sail around the world!
The world is round isn't it??

	08-10-2002 12:19									#35
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You never know 'till you do it.

	08-10-2002 15:39									#36
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When, realistically, could this fleet be available for use should we decide to begin construction?

	08-10-2002 20:09									#37
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Kloreep, I could have sworn the sink rate of Galleys in ocean is 50% while the sink rate of Caravels in ocean is 25%.

Yes, I think the coastal cities need some imporovements first to prepare for our golden age.

	08-10-2002 22:07									#38
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joncnunn, how do you know that?
If you can find hard evidence to this it would greatly benefit our discussion, as well as our joint cause.

	08-10-2002 23:02									#39
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I'll read my Civ 3 entry on Caravel tonight.

I played Civ 2 a lot longer than Civ 3, so I may simply have been mixing and matching in ways I'd have done if I were the desiginer of Civ 3.

In my mod I'll move the Galleon back to Magnitism so it won't crowd out the Caravel. I'll keep the Privatter at Navigation though to encourage a peroid of Priacy.

The other change affecting ships in the Middle Ages is that I elimated bombard from Frigates, and reduced bombard on Men of War down to 1.

	08-10-2002 23:46									#40
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Here is something to think about.


"Have you seen on the map where Rome, Greece & the Aztecs have been exploring the Seas?

E_T"

Compare these images:

Attachment: exploringseathumb.jpg
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	09-10-2002 00:07									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Here is something to think about. "Have you seen on the map where Rome, Greece & the Aztecs have been exploring the Seas? E_T" Compare these images:

I have been saying this from the very beginning. Based on the algorithms Civ3 uses to generate land masses launching directly west from Grecos has a high probability of hitting the Lost Civs' Contintent.

I campaigned to get Holeinwall moved so it could build ships and if it built a harbor it can build veteran galleys and later upgrade them and this could provide an Eastern Fleet to launch forth from Grecos.

	09-10-2002 00:16									#42
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If I'm looking at the images correctly though, the AI won't explore further west aroud there for fear of losing Caravels in the ocean.

But once Navigation is discovered, they'll quickly find them.

	10-10-2002 02:15									#43
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Shiber, I broke out the 1.21f Civ 3 Encylopia:

Caravels : Ocean travel is treachous before Navigation or Mettalurgy.

Navigation : Makes ocean travel safe for Caravels and allows ocean trade connections with harbors.

Mettalurgy : Makes ocean travel safe for Caravels and allows ocean trade connections with harbors.

Astronemy : Makes sea travel safe for Galleys and allows sea trade connections with harbors.

Galleys: Dangerous to travel sea and in ocean. Great Light House makes it safe to end movement in sea, but never for oceans.

	10-10-2002 02:23									#44
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That's what I thought before a lot of people said this isn't true and galleys can traverse ocean squares after Navigation and I figured this was just a mistake in the Civilopedia.
It's late. I'll make a scenario tomorrow to verify this.

	10-10-2002 04:00									#45
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Ships are a waste of $, time, and resources now. Later they will be important. Unless forced, I will not build any more in my administration (next 1.5 weeks). Remember, they cost maintenance under republic, a drain on our funds. We currently lack development at home. How many cathedreals do we have? And we are religious? With what wonders? Focus on our better priorities for now. Soon we will make contact.

	10-10-2002 16:10									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Ships are a waste of $,

Ships are not a wast of $ or anything else we need to see more of our world!

	10-10-2002 20:43									#47
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We need Caravels for that.

Galleys sink in sea until we get Astornmey, at which point we can also upgrade existing Galleys to them.

Caravels will survive ocean with Navigation. Galleys would still sink. (Source : 1.21f in-game Encylopedia.)

	11-10-2002 20:21									#48
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hi ,

we need a fleet , and we should have started to build it a long time ago , .....

have a nice day

	14-10-2002 13:51									#49
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How's the fleet coming now?

	14-10-2002 15:45									#50
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We have lots of ships! Well, one actually. The other sank after transporting two settlers to Uber Isle.
In any case, as soon as we get Astronomy we should send our galley to be upgraded to a Caravel and then move it to the Persian sea, and once we get Navigation we set sail to the northeast and hope we get there first.

	14-10-2002 17:11									#51
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I don't have the game right here. Where is the ship now? I hope it is in our easternmost port...