07-10-2002 02:45									#1
	We =need= ships! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think there is another continent North-East of the English City of Warwick. Look at the sea and ocean tiles.

Let's build some ships ASAP. We'll get Astronomy in a few turns, and when we do, the ships should already be in position. A RoP with England may be necessary.

With Astronomy, we can safely travel on sea squares with our Galleys. And we'll be able to build Caravels.

Remember: the profits that we can make from First Contact with the Lost Civs are HUGE.

	07-10-2002 02:50									#2
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Hear hear, I have long been an advocate for the construction of a navy (even the much-debated suicide galley idea has it's benefits) to explore the rest of the world.

Remember, there is still one nation out there that is (dare I say it) larger than us, and I'm sure many of our current enemies would lay prostrate before our feet if we discovered the missing civz first.

I think west of the Romans is the best area to look for them, or east of our newly conquered Persian lands...

	07-10-2002 02:51									#3
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There should be what, at LEAST three more civz out there, if not more?

	07-10-2002 02:53									#4
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There are 12 known Civs. I think this leaves Four.

	07-10-2002 04:49									#5
	Got spare money?

We do need ships. Once we have communications with other civs we are rich

	07-10-2002 04:55									#6
	Re: We =need= ships! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster I think there is another continent North-East of the English City of Warwick. Look at the sea and ocean tiles. Let's build some ships ASAP. We'll get Astronomy in a few turns, and when we do, the ships should already be in position. A RoP with England may be necessary.

If there WAS a continent connected to Britain by sea they should have already made contact.

I believe we should launch from the Greek Island as large islands tend to point to the nearest continent.

	07-10-2002 05:12									#7
	Re: Re: We =need= ships! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb If there WAS a continent connected to Britain by sea they should have already made contact. I believe we should launch from the Greek Island as large islands tend to point to the nearest continent.

Do you have any clue how many RoP's that's going to require?

	07-10-2002 05:12									#8
	Put an end to popups!

If you wanna get ships man, just post an off.poll containing:
- How many ships do we need to build. choose: {0,1,2,3...,n}

They have to follow the people's voice then.

	07-10-2002 05:13									#9
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PlagueRat,

While this is true, the current CoL requires that any official poll have a discussion thread to discuss the matter first and arrive at some form of agreement on what the variuos options should be

	07-10-2002 05:21									#10
	Re: Re: Re: We =need= ships! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Do you have any clue how many RoP's that's going to require?

Yes, ZERO

We don't put anybody on them and they'll never force you to leave just keep asking.

However, if we had Astornomy and could navigate sea tiles it would be zero and we would never enter their culture space as we have open sea all the way to the farthest edge of the Grecos (the Greek Island).

	07-10-2002 05:40									#11
	Re: Re: Re: Re: We =need= ships! Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Yes, ZERO We don't put anybody on them and they'll never force you to leave just keep asking. However, if we had Astornomy and could navigate sea tiles it would be zero and we would never enter their culture space as we have open sea all the way to the farthest edge of the Grecos (the Greek Island).

I'm not looking at the map at the moment so I don't know how far AI borders currently extend, but I know for a fact that "sea" tiles can be covered by culture-influenced border radius... which means we WOULD be moving through their territory. It's only if we were moving on "ocean" tiles that we wouldn't (ocean tiles are never inside any civ's territory).

That said, we *could* do what you describe with the boat moving through their territories... but doesn't that mean we take a diplomatic hit every single stupid turn we have a boat in their territory?

	07-10-2002 05:45									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos PlagueRat, While this is true, the current CoL requires that any official poll have a discussion thread to discuss the matter first and arrive at some form of agreement on what the variuos options should be

Sorry, you are right. I forgot.
So this thread could be considered such an "option-matter thread then" ? I've presented some options.
But that was only numbers of ships to be made.
Could that be any good options?

	07-10-2002 05:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Sorry, you are right. I forgot. So this thread could be considered such an "option-matter thread then" ? I've presented some options. But that was only numbers of ships to be made. Could that be any good options?

Options could include where we're proposing that the ships be built (though that could be a second poll with options for where). Other than that, the thrust of this thread would suggest that we're really just looking at a number of ships for this mission.

	07-10-2002 06:06									#14
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Guess we'll have to make two polls then...

1 Where and when?
2. How many and how? (rush or prod)

Something like that...

	07-10-2002 09:37									#15
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Ships before Astronomy and the ability to traverse at least sea? Yuck.

Why not try to urge the acquisition of Astronomy/Navigation as quickly as possible? I think this is a good idea (but after Gunpowder, naturally), and would support this. Once we can do some travelling beyond our pathetic coast-bound Galleys I would like to see some ships around.

	07-10-2002 10:12									#16
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I agree and am hereby announcing a new deputy position under me. This position will be called SMC Deputy In charge of Sea Charting and Ocean exploration or SMCdisco. This postion ,not to be jokingly refered to as disco duck, will oversee naval force creation and movement and make request to the SMC for boats to be built/upgraded and harbors built. The SMC will consider these request and if approved will forward to CP. Anybody who wants this job please pm me. This person will have a HUGE impact on the games future since a good exploration program is priceless. Also I intend to give this person much freedom, since what is the purpose of creating such a position if the person jsut does what I say, I want somebody with a definite plan.
Aggie

	07-10-2002 18:16									#17
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Priorities:
1. Build more galleys
2. Send the galleys to the east and west tips of our continent
3. Acquire Astronomy
4. Travel on the seas
5. Acquire Navigation
6. Travel on the ocean
7. Discover the Lost Civs
8. Make HUGE profits from selling tech, maps, luxuries and resources around
9. Win the Game.

	07-10-2002 18:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie I agree and am hereby announcing a new deputy position under me. This position will be called SMC Deputy In charge of Sea Charting and Ocean exploration or SMCdisco. This postion ,not to be jokingly refered to as disco duck, will oversee naval force creation and movement and make request to the SMC for boats to be built/upgraded and harbors built. The SMC will consider these request and if approved will forward to CP. Anybody who wants this job please pm me. This person will have a HUGE impact on the games future since a good exploration program is priceless. Also I intend to give this person much freedom, since what is the purpose of creating such a position if the person jsut does what I say, I want somebody with a definite plan. Aggie

Whoah there, Nellie. Exploration is under Imperial Expansion not warfighting. Hence the name Imperial Expansion.............

And I already recommended Sir Ralph be in charge of the operation as he has a lot of experience with this tactic.

	07-10-2002 18:53									#19
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Did he accept?
I know Sir Ralph doesn't have a lot of time to participate in the demogame.

	07-10-2002 18:54									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Did he accept? I know Sir Ralph doesn't have a lot of time to participate in the demogame.

Sir Ralph has had a breakdown and appears obsessed with Macross City. I think he's found himself a couple of dainty French twins in a tavern there and that's all he can think about anymore................

	07-10-2002 19:14									#21
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Sir Ralph has had a breakdown and appears obsessed with Macross City. I think he's found himself a couple of dainty French twins in a tavern there and that's all he can think about anymore................

	07-10-2002 19:18									#22
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Ghengis is probably right that the position should be under MoIE. But that Name! The name of the position is enough to make people want to run for the post!


D.I.S.C.O. Duck....


Too perfect...

	07-10-2002 19:43									#23
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Actually this is a discussion that we had a long long long long time ago. At the time Pres. Trip said boats are units and units are under the SMC. An analogy is early in the game when warrior are largely just exploring. Then they were still under SMC. However at the time I did make the point that galley(and early boats) really weren't combat units, so I think it would be reasonable to put this under the MoIE, but would like the input of our nation first. Actually lets start a thread.
Aggie

	07-10-2002 19:48									#24
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Let's not make a fuss about which kind of units fall under what jurisdiction.

Let's build ships.

	07-10-2002 22:10									#25
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On the original topic.

No new ships needed until Navigation. The coastal cities like the land ones are behind in inferstructure.

If we aren't actively using the Galleys send them to a Harbor so they upgraded. Send the Carvells out exploring being sure to end movement on sea tiles where we wouldn't be violating treatries.

After one of them expands our knowledge of the sea around Uber Island, that one should probably return home to a harbor so it can be upgraded to Galleon. (Exception: if another land mass found near Uber Island.)

By the time we have Navigation, our coastal cities can afford building a few Galleons which can safey explore the ocean.

	07-10-2002 22:34									#26
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I disagree. We need to build galleys now and move them to sea squares as soon as Astronomy is available to us, and then send them out into the ocean to explore as soon as we have Navigation. If we wait for Navigation and then produce the galleys we'll find the lost civs a few turns later.

	07-10-2002 23:51									#27
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Galleons can move faster than Galleys / Caravels, so by having existing naval units in harbors when we get Navigation so they can be upgraded immedately we'll cut a few turns off traveling the lost distance.

	08-10-2002 00:18									#28
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Oh, I see now what you meant. Yes, you're absolutely right joncnunn. Sorry.

	08-10-2002 01:51									#29
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Actually, 2 points, which I think argue for building galleys now. Galleons come with Magnetism, which is a while off still, and Caravels are not faster than galleys; they're just better defended and can carry more.

	08-10-2002 02:24									#30
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Oh, yeah, I moded my own game by moving Galleons & Privs to Navigation, and making it a required tech as well as a prereq to Magnetism.

Magnetism is a ways off.

We're still better off sending Caravels into the ocean than Galleys. (Lower sink rates.)