07-10-2002 03:34									#1
	Game Report 440-490 AD Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

(edit: this report is until 490, not 470)
(edit: the save is in this thread)

GAME REPORT 440-490 AD
Sunday, October 6th, 2002, 18:30 GMT

General
We conquer the Persian Capital (again…) and then we kick them out of their original homeland alltogether. Then we make peace. The Aztecs seem too fast for us in their conquest of America. We re-negotiate some peace deals. Then, the chat froze up around 490 AD...

Analysis: We're considering switching to Republic.

Military
460 Persian city of Arbela conquered. Their Capital moves to Hamadan.
460 Persian city of Antioch conquered.
460 The Persians accept our Peace Terms (Education, Invention and their World Map)
470 Peace re-negotiated with several Civs.

Analysis: There is a general discussion on when to build ships, and which type. Discovering the Lost Civs first could give us financial and/or technological advantages. First though, we'll have to acquire the appriopriate techs.

Cities
440 The French city of Chartres decides to join the Apolytonian Empire.
450 Colony Founded (Incense) (near Susa)
460 New City Founded: "Hole in Wall" (1 tile south of the 'old' city of Hole in Wall)
460 New City Founded: "Thebes" (on the west coast of Uber Isle)
470 Tombstone is abandoned by building a settler. Tombstone Pizzas Football Team are looking for a new home ground.
490 A Temple was rushed in Arbela.

Analysis: The Government is concerned about possible 'Culture Flipping' of the city of Arbela. This would mean the loss of our three Spice Resources, two of which we are currently trading. It would mean damage to our repuation.

Trades
450 (We give) Incense; (Romans give) 6 g, 10 gpt and their World Map.
460 (Persians give) Education, Invention and their World Map; (We give) Peace.
470 We re-negotiate peace with Germany: (We give) Peace (Germany gives) 15 g and 7 gpt
470 We re-negotiate peace with Greece: (We give) Peace (Greece gives) World Map
470 Spice deal. (We give) Spices; (Germany gives) 8g and 7 gpt.
470 We re-negotiate peace with the Aztecs: (We give) Peace (Aztecs give) 23 g.
470 We re-negotiate peace with the Babylonians: (We give) Peace (Babylonians give) 2g, a Worker and World Map.
470 We re-negotiate peace with the Iroquois: (We give) Peace (Iroquois give) 2g and World Map.
470 We re-negotiate peace with France: (We give) Peace (France gives) 18g and World Map.
470 We re-negotiate peace with England: (We give) Peace, Spices (England gives) 19g, Music Theory and World Map.
470 We re-negotiate peace with Russia: (We give) Peace (Russia gives) World Map.
470 We re-negotiate peace with Rome: (We give) Peace (Rome gives) 5g, 3 gpt and World Map.

Science
460 Education and Invention gained from Persians.
470 Music Theory acquired from the English.

Analysis: Rome, Greece and Germany have Astronomy.

Foreign
450 The Aztecs take the American city of Chicago
490 Rome and Germany now have Gunpowder (cost: at least 1033 g). It is unknown if they have access to Saltpeter.

Analysis: Rome has been exploring the seas west of the Iroquois.

Next Turnchat
Thursday, October 10th, 2002, 22:00 GMT or the Saturday after that.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 09-10-2002 at 17:52

	07-10-2002 04:33									#2
	Quick Rundown for 490AD Enter the AD-FREE zone

Rome & Germany Have Gunpowder. It is unknown if they have access to Saltpeter.

Rome, Greece & Germany Have Astronomy. Aztecs still have the Lighthouse.

We are Even Technologically with England, Russia & Persia.

Aztecs, Iroquois, France & Babylon Need Education.

Iroquois, France & Babylon Need Invention.

America is Hopeless and will be a memory in a few turns.

We have traded the newly aquired Incense & Spices.

Rome has been doing some Exploring at Sea as evidenced by the map that we got from them. Look west of Iroquois land and you'll see. No one has found the other Civs yet.

The Civs that are deficient in our newly accuired technologies are so broke that they can barely pay their own people, little alone us for any technologies. This might change soon, but not likely in the next 5 turns.

More detailed report to follow in a day or two.

[EDIT] Rome, which is more favorable towards us wants 1033 Lytons for Gunpowder and more for Astronomy. The cost of buying Technologies is starting to get very prohibitive. We will most likely have to work on researching them ourselves.

E_T

	07-10-2002 04:38									#3
	Got spare money?

I guess we'll just have to buy Gunpowder from Germany or Rome then sell it to Greece for Astronomy all the while hoping we are connected to Saltpeter in about 4 areas so we can pay for this great feat.

	07-10-2002 04:53									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Main log

Attachment: #civ3dem.undernet.20021006.txt
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	07-10-2002 04:53									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ministers Log

Attachment: #civ3demministers.undernet.20021006.txt
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	07-10-2002 04:57									#6
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Ministers Log

Are you going to post a transaction in the $Mini-game session. The first two posts list your production AND your stockpile.

On Topic: How many workers did we capture/buy?

	07-10-2002 12:31									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Edited with new info. Goverment - please PM me about the events between 470 and 490.

	07-10-2002 13:29									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

This is good BFM. ATM poly takes 51 seconds to load each page for me. Which is why I couldn't continue with the poly chat. Will post a report when poly gets better.

The only major thing is that we traded a load of spice when we shouldn't have.

	07-10-2002 19:52									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

We 'forgot' to trade the Spice for nice technology. Instead, we got some Lytons out of it. Now, we don't have some spare Spice to spare (try saying that 10 times fast).

	07-10-2002 20:06									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I failed on the 8th time.

	07-10-2002 22:20									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

We need to buy Gun Powder from the Romans with the neighboring Germans also possesing it ASAP.

Tech whoring of Gunpowder with other civs after we acquire this for more peaceful techs + gold is also recommended.

	07-10-2002 22:34									#12
	FAM Plans Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

We aquired Education, Invention, Music Theory, and made a heck of a lot of gold in the previous turnchat. We really couldn't have done much better, folks. We now have an amazing income and a great deal of extra cash which we should invest in our nation's infrastructure. We need to spend this money on markets, courthouses, and libraries as we are about to switch to Republic and enter a Golden Age.

During our GA we will have the cash and income necessary to purchase Gunpowder and trade it for Astronomy. Hopefully we won't have to do many more trades like this in the future, as we develop our own research facilities.

As a note: For some reason most of our neighbors are exceptionally broke right now. Some techwhoring and trading was explored in the previous chat but there was just no market out there for our knowledge. We soaked up most of the excess cash with our lux deals.

--Togas

	07-10-2002 23:11									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I sympathize with Togas. The typical AI behavior of never saving cash and instead blowing it all as soon as they have a decent amount is bad for business, as well as irritating.

	08-10-2002 00:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster We 'forgot' to trade the Spice for nice technology. Instead, we got some Lytons out of it. Now, we don't have some spare Spice to spare (try saying that 10 times fast).

No we shouldn't have traded it at all.
I'm thinking about calling for an emergency cabinet meeting over this.

	08-10-2002 00:15									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

I hope the price we traded that last spiece for was the full value and not 1 GPT less than ("Can't be done")

	08-10-2002 00:53									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster We 'forgot' to trade the Spice for nice technology. Instead, we got some Lytons out of it. Now, we don't have some spare Spice to spare (try saying that 10 times fast).

Excuse me, but we did trade some of the Spice for the nice Technology. Music Theory to be precise. We got it from England as part of the Peace Renegotiation with them. The exact deal was Music Theory; WM & 19 Lytons for Peace & Spices. For a Technology, this wan't a bad deal at all. Some say that this is a dead end Tech and not worth that much, but we can use it to store up sheilds for trying to get Smith's Trading. We might also use it in a trade sometime in the future, to someone. I explored selling the Spices for Astronomy or Gunpowder, but it would not have been much of a discount and I didn't have the authority to spend that much of our money without first consulting with the FM and the MoE.

quote: Originally posted by OPD No we shouldn't have traded it at all. I'm thinking about calling for an emergency cabinet meeting over this.

I had discussed the possibility of saving the Incense that we had sold to Rome for this eventuality. I was wanting to trade Incense & Spice & Peace with Greece for Astronomy (Greece is more favorable to us and would give us a better deal). But we didn't KNOW for sure if Greece (or Rome at that) would have Astronomy (it was heavily congectured), so the deal with Rome was done.

Per Togas's orders, we traded all of our Wine, Incense & Spice surplus this turnchat. I don't see any problem, if there was, it should have been brought up either before the turnchat OR while we where in chat.

If we get Printing Press before the other Civs, we should be able to trade THAT for Gunpowder and then try trading Gunpowder for Astronomy, but that's for the next round and we'll need to get it first.

E_T

	08-10-2002 02:10									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

IMHO, we aren't in a position to use Music Theory right now.

Does either the current City Planner or one of his administractive deputies willing to forgo inferstructure development on any city right now?

And even if this is so, I predict that the Hawk Party will say to produce Knights there and if it's coastal, the We Want Ships crowd we'll say to produce ships there. The Thinkers Guild will complain if this city doesn't have a libary. The group wanting a Golden Age will complain if the city doesn't have a Market Place.

	08-10-2002 02:44									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by E_T Per Togas's orders, we traded all of our Wine, Incense & Spice surplus this turnchat. I don't see any problem, if there was, it should have been brought up either before the turnchat OR while we where in chat.

It =was= brought up in the chat. Many people asked if we had traded for Astronomy, and many requests involved trading spice.

	08-10-2002 03:12									#19
	Suffering from ads?

Here's my take on the whole issue.

E_T's decision was consistent with Togas' orders. I didn't leave instructions that anticipated this when I left, so he had to make a decision in the absence of Togas and myself (E_T had been confirmed by Togas as third in command before the chat began). We can argue the merits of that decision all day, but the fact remains that it was made. I'd much rather see some plans on any way to obtain Astronomy/Gunpowder then much more discussion about if this was right or wrong, to be honest.

I don't mean to criticize anything anyone's already said -- if something comes up in a chat, it should be discussed, and if someone thinks that an error has been made, it should be pointed out. Having said that, the issue has been brought up now, and I'd like to make a friendly recommendation that we move on -- what's done is done, and I'd personally rather debate future actions, which we might be able to change.

-- adaMada

	08-10-2002 04:00									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by adaMada . [Snip] . I'd much rather see some plans on any way to obtain Astronomy/Gunpowder then much more discussion about if this was right or wrong, to be honest. . [Snip] -- adaMada

I've been putting some thought into that while I was working on my Report (to be posted late this evening).

I conjecture that the Aztecs are researching Gunpowder. They have had Invention for a while and they are Militaristic, so I think that they will get it soon. A Gunpowder for Education trade would not cost us as much as buying it outright, especially coupled with a possible WM (if we are allowed to sell it at that time). The Aztecs still don't have a trade route with us, but they do need some of our surpluss Dyes. If the Banana is really smiling on us, the two will happen about the same time and well get Gunpowder for practically free.

And if we get Gunpowder before the Greeks do, we can trade them for Astronomy (or banking, if that's available by that time too).

That's what I'm going to Recommend in my Report.

E_T

	09-10-2002 04:25									#21
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ok wrong end of the stick indeed.

Yes there was an error made and a very big one, probably the biggest error made so far in this game.

There must be no doubt that the error is my fault and no one else's. The fact that the foreign ministry does not yet see the problem we now face highlights the fact that this can be no ones fault but my own. The foreign ministry takes care of trades and buisness with other civs. It is my job to manage the whole or take an overall view of things and make sure no big mistakes are made. However a "slip up" has been made with regard to trading spices and it can be no ones fault but my own. I as president should have vetod any trade deal involving spices as there is a good chance that we could loose them within the next twenty turns.
I am calling an emergency cabinet meeting over this to see what can be done before the next turns are played. Full responsibility for this has now been taken and efforts should be directed to discusing what we can to rectify the situation.

	09-10-2002 04:31									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We might loose the spices within the next twenty turns?

No, I'm sorry OPD, it's our job to notice that as well. I honestly had no idea that trading the spices were even an issue. My uptmost apologies. I also take partial responsibility, as I should have been following the other Ministers plans (assuming that OPD's refering to a Minister's plan) closer and watching for things like this... Predicting things that will affect trades is one of the things the Foreign Ministry needs to do, and I'm very sorry we've apparently failed.

Please, could someone tell me why we're gonna loose it? I'll go have a look at a map, but I can't load the game right now and don't know of any reason... I guess we'll have to find a way to sort this out now .

Again, my most sincere apologies.

-- adaMada

	09-10-2002 04:47									#23
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by OPD Full responsibility for this has now been taken and efforts should be directed to discusing what we can to rectify the situation.

Please no more discussion about anything other than what we can/should do.

	09-10-2002 04:48									#24
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Please no more discussion about anything other than what we can/should do.

Ok, very well .

I'll start looking into it ASAP.

-- adaMada

	09-10-2002 12:24									#25
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Report edited for 490 AD info.

	09-10-2002 17:53									#26
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Also edited for (probable) next turnchat day and time, and some analysis bits.

	10-10-2002 20:29									#27
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok am very time constricted ATM and my comp is going a bit slow too. Thanks very much to BFM for doing this. Will put this in the official thread when I get the time although my plans concerning the saves thread didn't go very well during my term as pres.

Aggie is taking the next chat I think which I guess is tonight.

So speak to him about it.

Attachment: banana of the egyptians, 490 ad.sav
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