07-10-2002 04:45									#1
	Official Palace Poll Runoff Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This a runoff between the two most popular choices for the Palace/Forbidden Palace locations. The poll will last 5 days.

1) Timeline and Contaginon
2) Macross City and Geofront
X) Abstain

	07-10-2002 04:48									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In what direction are we plannign to expand? Left or Right?

	07-10-2002 04:52									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I support 1) Timeline and Contaginon because I'm a big "river tile" fan and would like as many of those +1 commerce tiles to be close to palaces.

	07-10-2002 05:09									#4
	Got spare money?

I agree with GF, but have additional reasoning for it.

You see, even IF we were to attack France and/or Greece, it's probably not going to happen for quite a while. As such, I strongly think that an FP in Contaginon is our best option for now. The palace, we must keep in mind, IS MOBILE AND CONTINUES TO BE MOBILE EVEN AFTER WE MOVE IT, so if we put it in Timeline for now because that's best and... 50-100 turns or more down the road when we might conceivably own all of France and Greece, we could move it again to Macross (assuming we ever get that far, which definately not certain... the reason why we stick it in Timeline now).

That's my thinking on the matter, anyhow...

	07-10-2002 05:20									#5
	Remove this text

I will vote for Timeline/Cont. if and only if that name(Timeline) is under the possibility of a legal change.
So , where can I lookup our code of law?

	07-10-2002 09:21									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

timeline for one seems like the right choice for the palace now, especially since we can move it later. Building in macross seems to me like dangling it off the edge of the world at this point in our development.

	07-10-2002 15:13									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I support 1) Timeline and Contaginon because I'm a big "river tile" fan and would like as many of those +1 commerce tiles to be close to palaces.

Right, I forgot, there are no river tiles in and around Macross City, or are there some? Aren't we blind on one eye here?

Macross city and Geofront is it! Come on, people, think global. Why waste tons of leaders for a dozen palace moves? Build the palace in the right place, use our military to "transform" the territory around it into ours, and use the leaders for an army and more of the attractive medieval and industrial wonders. If I have a choice between Adam Smith's, ToE or Hoover on one side, and the 3rd Palace move on the other, I chose the wonder hands down.

	07-10-2002 19:48									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

By doing the math, it looks like the optimial cities would be Marcoss City and "Antioch". These two cities are about 20 tiles apart. That would let it have five tiles of overlap (P effect is 15 tiles, FP is 10). I see thats not an option. I see that NEVER was an option. I think we should reconsider our options before the next turnchat....

*** That Donegeal is just a boob sometimes! ***

Last edited by Donegeal on 07-10-2002 at 20:10

	07-10-2002 19:57									#9
	Got spare money?

Donegeal, where did you get this data from?
AFAIK the only effect of Palaces and FPs outside of calculating the chance of a cultural flip are when calculating waste and corruption. Palace/FP placement factors in as the 'Distance from the nearest capital' factor (where palaces and FPs act the same) and 'Number of cities closer to the nearest capital' factor. See this thread for info.

	07-10-2002 20:01									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by donegeal By doing the math, it looks like the optimial cities would be Marcoss City and "Antioch". These two cities are about 20 tiles apart. That would let it have five tiles of overlap (P effect is 15 tiles, FP is 10). I see thats not an option. I see that NEVER was an option. I think we should reconsider our options before the next turnchat....

Overlap is waste. The options in the original poll were the ones suggested over 6 weeks. Where have you been the last 2 months? We cannot reconsider our options every two months because some new member has a different idea. If we did that we would NEVER get to play the game.

	07-10-2002 20:07									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I stand educated. Thank you.

	07-10-2002 20:10									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

No problem. I had no idea corruption works this way either only a few weeks ago.

	07-10-2002 20:10									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by donegeal I stand educated. Thank you.

I wasn't trying to be mean, its just that this was discussed for a LONG time, and there will always be new suggestions so we have to make a cutoff at some point as I really don't like the idea of having another huge poll for 5 days and then redoing this poll again.

	07-10-2002 20:26									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Am i missing something here

Why is there a runoff poll. We had a poll. there was a winner. IIRC, there was no mention that the last poll was "preliminary" in any way (although i could be mistaken). This is getting into very dangerous territory, IMHO.

	07-10-2002 20:34									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The title of the last poll let us know it was preliminary. It was called:

OFFICIAL Suggestions of the Palace Committee Poll

	07-10-2002 20:41									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Where does that say preliminary??? The palace committee were ALWAYS only making suggestions to be voted on, whether that was one poll or many. ANd there is nothing in the first post about a runoff either.

	07-10-2002 20:53									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

LOL.

Ghengis, you were right...

mtgillespie, in the original poll it states:

quote: This poll's purpose is to discuss and determine the population's more popular choices

It determined the two most popular choices, now we are determining the favorite. We will then have a THIRD poll as to which CITY gets the Palace and which the FP.

Disagree? Submit it to the court, and I will see you there.

	07-10-2002 21:04									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

OK, i didn't see that under all the maps. I stand corrected (although i think it should have been clearer).

quote: Disagree? Submit it to the court, and I will see you there.

LOL. I feel like i'm in the old west, and i've just been asked to "go for my gun" by billy the kid

	07-10-2002 21:16									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sorry, Ghengis and I were debating this very scenario in another thread. He knew someone might take objection to this poll, and I have prepared a defense for that reason to speed this decision along. We need to get these started.

	07-10-2002 22:46									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't have quite enough infomation to vote yet.

Are we planning on implemting Aggie's second proposed French invasion as the next war after America?

If so, then Marcoss City & Geofront is the obvious choice.

If the next war is an annexation of England, then Timeline + Contaginion is the obvious choice.

If we intend to be peaceful the rest of the game, neither choice makes much sense, as both have one city in a good spot now, and another that's currently on the fridges of the empire.

	08-10-2002 00:19									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn If we intend to be peaceful the rest of the game, neither choice makes much sense, as both have one city in a good spot now, and another that's currently on the fridges of the empire.

I don't think this nation has the ability to remain peaceful for the rest of the game. But, anyway, we can always move the palace later.

	08-10-2002 02:27									#22
	Put an end to popups!

Can I safely assume that the Forbidden Palace will be built now in the closer city of the winning pair and the Palace relocated to the far one later?

	08-10-2002 02:36									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

NO,

Another poll will determine which of the winning combo gets which palace

	08-10-2002 20:34									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx NO, Another poll will determine which of the winning combo gets which palace

Both site could start working on either one as they aren't likely to finish either before that last poll is finished.

	08-10-2002 20:52									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If on the winning combo, both sites are going to be started immedately, then I'll have to abstain unless we are planning a military campaign against the neighbor the far city adjoins.

The westernmost city in the western combo is too close to France for my comfort.

The easternmost city in the eastern combo is too close to England & Germany for my comfort.

	08-10-2002 21:41									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I heavily suggest NOT immediately start construction on both after the poll is done... the host cities will need to build a few critical improvements first (temples, libraries, aqueducts if needed, courthouses if it signfiicantly reduces construction time, and cathedrals to keep the population content during the long construction.

	08-10-2002 21:52									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Both sites could start working on either one as they aren't likely to finish either before that last poll is finished.

No one ever said they would immediately start working on those, it is simply a possiblility should the CP want to.

	08-10-2002 22:31									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

I say macross/geofront is the obvious choice when you consider our LONG term territory. I like the long view and say we should take it.

As CP I will start construction per orders on this weekend. I will also request that our Public Works shift a large amount of attention to the choosen sites, including clearing and mining everything available and joining the foreign slave workers to our cities to give it a pop boost up to size 10-11.

	08-10-2002 22:51									#29
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by GodKing I will also request that our Public Works shift a large amount of attention to the choosen sites, including clearing and mining everything available and joining the foreign slave workers to our cities to give it a pop boost up to size 10-11.

Whoa... why would you join the foreign slave workers? For one, they are and will always be free labor. Also, they represent different ideologies and could oppose future military actions against their homelands.

Why not use the workers we are paying for (true, ours are industrious but we can always produce more), at least they would provide a stable, homogenous population to base a capital on.

	08-10-2002 23:38									#30
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by GodKing As CP I will start construction per orders on this weekend.

WTF? You said zeit was running things and I've been pming him all my info:
1) Chartres needs to switch production to settler and work the roaded river jungle tile 2 space SE instead of one of the grasslands to avoid hitting pop 3 before the settler is done.

2) Ubergorsk is working an unshielded grassland when a shielded grassland is available.

3) Holeinwall might as well switch to harbor before temple as the Roman city has already beat us to the wheat resource (it culture expanded last turn) and a harbor generates 4 happy faces (4 luxuries) versus the 1-2 of a temple.

4) BFM is in trouble riot wise unless somehting is done.

5) Mystery City (Gotham) should switch to working the improved grassland S instead of the jungle tile.

quote: Originally posted by GodKing I will also request that our Public Works shift a large amount of attention to the choosen sites, including clearing and mining everything available and joining the foreign slave workers to our cities to give it a pop boost up to size 10-11.

I don't see WhiteBandit joining the workers in clearing out the jungle as he is running for Monarch right now. It it would not look good to have a potential monarch sweating with a machete in the jungle and chumming around with captured foreign slaves.

Joining workers to our cities is a waste as we need more workers not less to clear and work our tiles. Our cities are breeding like rabbits with all that grassland around them I'm more concerned with keeping em happy at their hyper growth rate now and don't feel they need a deseperate boost form workers.