09-10-2002 10:47									#61
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NO we have to destroy them NOW !

	09-10-2002 13:34									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic NO we have to destroy them NOW !

	09-10-2002 17:34									#63
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Oddly enough, I agree on attacking the Americans NOW... read my post in the thread about the info we know about Boston... In my opinion, it's now or never if we want to take Boston before the Aztecs do.

	09-10-2002 18:53									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos In my opinion, it's now or never if we want to take Boston before the Aztecs do.

Never? I disagree. We should be able to take Boston from the Aztecs easily enough down the road, if it becomes a priority. IMO we are getting carried away with a sense of crisis here.
It is MUCH more important to stage our golden age correctly -- in the right government, with adequate cultural and economic infrastructre in place to maximize its benefits. Until we we have everything lined up (marketplaces, courthouses, etc.) we must not use our War Chariots. The advantages of optimizing our GA far outweigh the benefits of taking Boston.

	09-10-2002 20:49									#65
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Isn't the turn you declare the revolution the one turn you don't want to rush buildings?

Having the revolution the right turn so we are in Republic for the entire Golden Age is more important that those buildings needing rushed.

Robber Baron, We have to be at war to get a Golden Age in this time frame. What's to stop the Aztecs from contining on after Boston to take the last American city?

Plus the culural bombing of Washington will be easier if we start with Boston.

And we don't want the Aztecs in turn losing those cities to the Germans if the Germans decide the Aztecs have gone soft.

	14-10-2002 05:34									#66
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Well, the war for America is over now, and as most of you know we prevented the Aztecs from capturing the last standing American city of New York.

Even though I stand among the most war-mongering Hawks and will continue to encourage growth of empire, I do think that a period of peace and prosperity is in order. We're a republic now, so lets keep the people happy and prepare for the next time we need "breathing room"....

	14-10-2002 07:49									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos In my opinion, it's now or never if we want to take Boston before the Aztecs do.

told you so

	14-10-2002 08:03									#68
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From my estimate, I see Alexander and Montezuma in an un-banana alliance. That is my fear. As of this point, I think they have the troops and could out-produce us. What I also worry about is a lack of navy. It's not feasible to put one together right now, but I feel an odd historical paradox of a large land nation/army with a small fleet...

And screw the French, Germans and English. Even together we'd slaughter 'em.

	14-10-2002 09:03									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Orange From my estimate, I see Alexander and Montezuma in an un-banana alliance. That is my fear. As of this point, I think they have the troops and could out-produce us.

While that is true, we do hold a certain amount of power over these nations because of our huge amount of export and trade power. These nations in some way need us around to survive. The Greeks are a different story. While they may be trade partners with us, they are also a formidable opponent. We have to watch them and the Germans very carefully, as the French, Aztec and English have little might compared to ours.

quote: [SIZE=1] And screw the French, Germans and English. Even together we'd slaughter 'em.

Reminds me of my fellow Hawks.

	14-10-2002 19:50									#70
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I just don't agree on the Germans. They are a middle power with no access to the ocean. The only way they'll expand is through attacking other nations. Why pick a fight with the biggest kid on the block? My guess is Otto goes after the English. They stack together the best.

quote: Reminds me of my fellow Hawks.

As close as I get. ::

	14-10-2002 21:45									#71
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If Otto goes to war with the English we have an interest in allying with him. We share only few tilesides with the English so we have an easy to defend border. All we have to do is to rush some defenders to Arbela and its surroundings and then ally with Otto, hold off the English, maybe attack and take some of their southern cities and most of all, enjoy all the techs and gpt that Otto will bestow upon us for allying with him.

	15-10-2002 00:55									#72
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I coulnd't agree with you more. Enland is where out border is the most ambigious. Aro's maps demonstrate this beautifully. How I hate Expansionist Civs. they always screw up my nice borders...

	15-10-2002 01:32									#73
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England is a good target. They are smaller, and we can expand naturally in that direction. Another thing of note is that England has a high culture rating - lets stop our east flank from culture flipping by destroying them!!!

	15-10-2002 04:53									#74
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I agree that the natural movement of the Germans is towards the coast, and that likely places either the English or the Aztecs at risk of a possible German invasion. The risk to us? Probably minimal. We have plenty of territory and the initial impact of an invading German force would be swallowed up by our huge expanse of land. Similar to the problems Napolean, Hitler etc ran into on their campaign in Russia...

Can we trust the Germans? That's the big issue for me. Otto always seems to be annoyed at something, or demanding this and that. His character is very predictable in this game.

The English can suffer at the hands of our armed forces. They take up some prime coastline, and if we can get those cities then we have a greater chance of discovering the lost civs before anyone else does, since the English seem to be ahead of us in that race, or will be in the future.

Take the English out. They won't know what hit em.

	15-10-2002 08:50									#75
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Here's something jingoistic to rally around...

To all Apolytonia! London Calling!

	16-10-2002 03:51									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie 1) End france as a threat before they can get a Ga, 2) Get us desert land for oil 3) With good culture buildup could threaten russian city  Aggie

Saltpeter and iron seem to be useful objectives, they'll save us alot of $$$, but these 3?

1) Might help, but if they're a minor power, aren't we better off building city improvements?
2) Is a long way off , and there are no guarantees.
3) War for the possiblity of a culture flip, and to do it we'd probably rush build? (120 gold), when we could start building a science infrastructure.

Let's start thinking like a Republic and fight more purposeful wars.

	16-10-2002 21:27									#77
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic Let's start thinking like a Republic and fight more purposeful wars.

Exactly!

	16-10-2002 22:20									#78
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-The way i see it, a war with france has two sides- on one hand- they are weak, and we'd take their cities easily, sue early for peace, etc. This will also give us the extra saltpeter, and, IMO more important- give us a GA, which in this stage of development is crucial and most benefitial.
France is also, compared to Germany, the 'weakest kid in block' and as we always used to pick on the weak and rip the profits, we might as well do it again.
On the other hand- and this is absolotely right- we have much better things to do right now with our lytons and our production, and somehow this war doesn't see all that necessary and worthwhile, and the terrain is disadvantageous for our knights.

I would have agreed to postpone such an opperation until further notice if not for two main reasons:

1)The frenchies have saltpeter but no gunpowder- and in the next 10 turns are not expected to raise enough for the creation of strong musketeer force, and this is our chance.

2)The GA we (at least I) crave for is just around the corner, and we won't get a much better chance for using our WC against a bunch of lowly warriors and swordmen.

	16-10-2002 22:49									#79
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Well put Zeit.

	16-10-2002 23:31									#80
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How many turns are left until our last trade deal with France expires?

And how many turns are left before out last trade deal with England expires?

Do the English have both Gunpowder & access to Saltpeter?

We are going to need to evenually annex England due to the winning Palace / Forbidden Palace combo. But if they can have Musketters already, then we want to wait for Calvary first unless Germany attacks England.

If we go after France as soon as the trade deals expire, we should only do it if we don't need the eastern 2 Knight forces to do so. (We'd still need them in place to discourage a German attack.)

	17-10-2002 01:04									#81
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France before England I say