07-10-2002 09:59									#1
	Whats up with all the friggin expansion packs? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Is this just a new way for they to make money? The Sims? Operation Flashpoint? Tom Clancy games?


(Didnt they used to have these things out on patches?)

	07-10-2002 12:06									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

More cash is basically what expansion packs are all about. And less risk / problems than creating a completely new game from scratch.
Still, many people feel that the new functions added by the expansion pack(s) are worth the money.

Patches are now usually to just fix the bugs they missed previously.

	07-10-2002 13:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah - patches merely turn the original cr*p into something of 'merchantable quality' some countries have laws about this - not apparently the States?!

SG[1]

	07-10-2002 14:30									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

An expansion pack to add another 50 hours gameplay I can handle, and I have no objection at all to paying £20 for that. The more recent trend of bundling patches, fixes and all the features that didn't make the cut date for the original software I find detestable.

	07-10-2002 15:17									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

A decent expansion pack can easily double the life of a game. For example, I've played Diablo 2 far more since the expansion came out - the game dramatically improved IMHO.

Not all expansion packs are good, though, especially when they are just glorified patches.
Or when they include huge features that were glaringly missing from the original release *cough* Civ3 multiplayer *cough*.

	07-10-2002 18:54									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I haven't found expansion packs to be of much value at all. I have 3 expansion packs for the Sims, 2 of which came with the original. Added a bit to the game, but not much. The 3rd expansion I bought for my g/f. It didn't add much to the game, but there were some indirect benefits to me buying it.

EDIT: Actually, the Starcraft expansion was worth the price. A whole new single-player campaign to go through, and as a bonus some extra units to play with. Lots of fun.

	07-10-2002 19:01									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It depends how much you enjoy the original game I suppose. If you love the original then you might be happy to just have more-of-the-same with a few new twists and some pretty graphics.

I'm not the world's biggest fan of Expansion Packs. However, some companies call their expansions 'sequels' and charge twice the usual expansion price for them.

	07-10-2002 19:02									#8
	Remove this text

Oh yeah, before I forget....

* FrustratedPoet throws a pie at Skanky for buying the Sims, even if it did have some 'fringe benefits'

	07-10-2002 19:23									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I dunno. I'd say I think the expacks that weren't planned as the "real" game since before the original game came out are OK. Unfortunately, we seem to be having a trend toward the other kind right now.

If this goes on, I'll have to stop buying games when they are released and wait for gold editions. Pity.

	08-10-2002 04:35									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Oh yeah, before I forget.... * FrustratedPoet throws a pie at Skanky for buying the Sims, even if it did have some 'fringe benefits'

Your gift is accepted.
Although choccy cake is the traditional bribe treat.

quote: If this goes on, I'll have to stop buying games when they are released and wait for gold editions. Pity.

That happened to me when buying the Settlers 2. A few months after I got it they released the gold edition which was basically the full version + a map editor - but it was still full price.
Settlers 3, same thing again.

Settlers 4 I vowed the same thing would not happen, and decided to wait for the gold edition to come out.
Unfortunately (for them) I have since lost interest in the game.

	08-10-2002 06:47									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't see anything wrong with expansion packs that extend the gameplay or enjoyability of the program (Starcraft's expansion, probably the Morrowind expansion), and I've never bought a game that made you pay for a glorified patch (since I don't tend to buy that many games, overall, and so I'm extremely careful about what purchases I make).

	08-10-2002 08:57									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It depends. Alien Crossfire is a good expansion pack. No idea about Brood Wars because the original solo campaigns bored me out of my skull

	08-10-2002 09:52									#13
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UR: If you learn Starcraft for free, like I did, with Brood War, you can't begin to imagine going back to the original. Besides, it's 12 for the original and 20 for both, so why not get both?

And the real fun in SC isn't the campaign, it's multiplayer. Erg, Protoss without Dark Templar or Terrans without Valkyries- hard to imagine! Ugh!

	08-10-2002 11:12									#14
	Put an end to popups!

I like quite many expansion packs (I remind Civ II players of all the nice features available with Conflicts in Civillization, Fantastic Worlds and Civ II Multiplayer).

Railroad Tycoon II - The Second Century

Great add-on to RT2. You'll get a new campaign, scenarios, locomotives, cargo and carriages. In general it adds more value to RT2.

Heroes of Might and Magic III Armageddon's Blade

New scenarios, but also several other nice new things. Not as great value for the money as TSC, but nice for HOMM3 MP.

Expansion packs I await...

Civ III Play the World
MOHAA Spearhead
IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles

Last edited by Rasbelin on 08-10-2002 at 11:29

	08-10-2002 21:43									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Features that didn't meet the shipping date :hmm:

sounds like Empire Earth's and Civ III's expansion packs :thumbsdown: :P

Civ III should have been better than Civ II... it should have had more; or at least been as much perfected- as it was; it was almost as good as Civ II, but its graphics were horrid; its mechanics flawed- its design ideas trash, etc, etc, etc, and it had no MP- rip off!!! And less civs!!!! and didn't let you play with 10 or more at once!!!
An option to CREATE OWN CIV would have been perfect!!!

Firaxis gave us LESS- not MORE with tehir expansion and thin kthat htaye can remedy that in the xpansion pack... they are such idiotic money-grubbing capitalists- they don't deserve our money.

	09-10-2002 00:45									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

it has to do with capitalism

	09-10-2002 02:13									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud And didn't let you play with 10 or more at once!!!

You can play with 16, actually.

I'm not a huge fan of the original graphics either, but their are plenty of mods out there (sn00py's in particular) that are excellent improvements IMHO.

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, though.

	09-10-2002 07:25									#18
	Support Apolyton

16 simultaneous?
I thought people were complaining that you could at most do 8?
Perhaps I misheard...

But I stand by the rest of my statements
-

quote: it has to do with capitalism

But in a communist society- none of the games would ahve been produced in the first place

	09-10-2002 10:06									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by SnowFire UR: If you learn Starcraft for free, like I did, with Brood War, you can't begin to imagine going back to the original. Besides, it's 12 for the original and 20 for both, so why not get both?

It's the Outpost Syndrome. In other words, once bitten, twice shy.

quote: Originally posted by SnowFire And the real fun in SC isn't the campaign, it's multiplayer.

A lot of people swear by multi-player games. I myself shun mouse click-fests, though.

* Urban Ranger must protect wrist

	11-10-2002 05:53									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't believe in multiplayer either. If single-player is boring you need to use your imagination more.

	11-10-2002 07:46									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

SP is the way to go. Just slapping on generic MP code and calling it replay value doesn't cut it for me (YOU HEAR ME MONOLITH AND RAVEN!)

This is why I am totaly against having Scripted Events within games, they are fine the first time around but bore quickly.

I wish more programmers who make FPS games could take Rebellion's idea of randomization of items and enemies. AvPGE never bores me, and with the help of the AvP launcher program and AvP Tweak (to enable jet packs and grappling hook in all levels), you can have even more fun!

This year I'm faced with a hard problem. Do I buy PTW for it's fix of Airplan range in the editor (which I could problably "fix" myself anyway)... or buy Tribunal, and continue my quest in MW.

	11-10-2002 08:15									#22
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Civ III should have been better than Civ II... it should have had more; or at least been as much perfected- as it was; it was almost as good as Civ II, but its graphics were horrid; its mechanics flawed- its design ideas trash, etc, etc, etc, and it had no MP- rip off!!! And less civs!!!! and didn't let you play with 10 or more at once!!! An option to CREATE OWN CIV would have been perfect!!! Firaxis gave us LESS- not MORE with tehir expansion and thin kthat htaye can remedy that in the xpansion pack... they are such idiotic money-grubbing capitalists- they don't deserve our money.

Civ II, believe it or not, didn't have multiplayer either. The larger the map, the more civs you can play against.
CREATE OWN CIV: No, you can't, and that does suck.

	11-10-2002 09:23									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

UR: Well, obviously if you don't like SC, don't bother with BW. But if you do like SC, then BW makes it far better.

As for the click-fest.. eh, I know people who just can't control their units that fast. Myself, I'm pretty decent at it, and that means I can concentrate on the strategies I want to use. Also, mutltiplayer team-stuff means that you can let somebody else worry about producing the ground hordes to hold off direct assault and make mobile annoyance-strike forces myself which I can micromanage and do various evil things with.

Thrawn: Hardly separate. I will say that the games I prefer multiplayer generally I mostly prefer multiplayer, and games I like SP I like almost exclusively SP (with the possible exception of Myth, but even there, multiplayer was a good bit better). And I play way more SP anyway.

	11-10-2002 11:17									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

My bad experience with SC came from grinding through all three solo campaigns (the Protoss one is esp. bad). If BW is that much better, I could have a change of heart

	11-10-2002 14:16									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Tribunal - must be the 'must buy' of the decade!

SG[1]

	11-10-2002 16:10									#26
	Remove this text

UR: What didn't you like about the SC solo campaigns?

	10-11-2002 03:57									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Civ II, believe it or not, didn't have multiplayer either. The larger the map, the more civs you can play against. CREATE OWN CIV: No, you can't, and that does suck.

All you had to do was go in and change the values manually in the editor! It wasn't hard!

And I know that Civ II didn't have mulitplayer- but please realize this- civ III was supposed to be better than CIV II! Civ III had less units and less rulers possible (only one female or male rahter than both)... Civ III was LESS Than civ II- if that isn't a rip off then nothing is! IT was a remake that wasn't as good as the first!

	10-11-2002 14:42									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Was it really worth bumping this month-old thread to carry on one of those tired Civ2.vs.Civ3 debates?

	10-11-2002 18:56									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, maybe some good will come of it. UR might see this and finally answer my question...

	10-11-2002 22:39									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Tribunal - must be the 'must buy' of the decade! SG[1]

That reminds me....

Another reason for XPs is because in the early development of games, some things needed to be cut in order to release the game on time, and to fit on the CD(s) (why games are not being released on DVDs is beyond, I think I read about 85% of computer users have DVD drives).

Tribunal was released for two reasons:

1: The success of Morrowind
2: The ORIGINAL story line for Morrowind called for what's in Tribunal.... and more.

The developers for MW have stated there were a lot of story lines they wanted to include, but couldn't due to time contraints.