10-10-2002 12:55									#1
	Switch to Republic Remove this text

Should we switch to Repubilc immediately after the Americans are finished?
I have surveyed our situation and calculated that if we switch to Republic this turn our income would rise from 127 gpt to ~155 gpt. Furthermore, no cities will suffer from civil disorder except some size 2 towns in Uber Isle. We can prevent this either by using specialists or by building temples in AGC, BFM and Boom Town at the total cost of 144 gold (our current treasury has 748 gold).
However, I don't recommend that we switch now, before the American campaign. If we switch to Republic and enter a war against America we will experience some war weariness from the previous war with Persia as well since our war weariness value has not dropped to 0 since then. Therefore, I recommend that we switch to Repubilc immediately after the American war is over (America is destroyed by us or by the Aztecs) in order not to suffer from war weariness.
I set this poll up to see what the people think of this issue.

Legal note: I am not an expert in CoL business. I don't know if this poll is obligatory to the government or not, if legal at all. I started this poll only out of good intent so if I broke any laws, please spare my head just this time.

Btw, I recommend that if we do switch then during the 1 turn of anarchy (the turn we switch to Republic in the domestic advisor screen) we maximize food production over shields and commerce and turn any laborers that don't produce any food into tax men.
Food is the only thing that is produced during anarchy. We might as well maximize food production, and turn any citizens that cannot be used to produce food and therefore are essentially useless into tax men so that they can benefit our nation one way or another.

Last edited by Shiber on 10-10-2002 at 22:20

	10-10-2002 13:05									#2
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If it increases our income now, then we should do it, afterall thats most of what being religious is about Besides, it'll only get better as we build more infrastructure, and we are probally going to want a golden age before the industrial ages and going to a government with a tile bonus is a pre-req IMO for that

	10-10-2002 14:39									#3
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I agree. Government type mostly has to do with income so I voted yes.

[rp]
We must save the King! This "republic" movement is strong. Perhaps there is a way that the Monarchy can be left as a figurehead?
[end]

	10-10-2002 14:46									#4
	Re: Switch to Republic Remove this text

quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Shiber [/SIZE Legal note: I am not an expert in CoL business. I don't know if this poll is obligatory to the government or not, if legal at all. I started this poll only out of good intent so if I broke any laws, please spare my head just this time.

Excuse rejected : if it were sufficient to plea one s good intent not to be beheaded, the guillotine industry would soon fall apart, particularly under republic.

	10-10-2002 14:54									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think so. America's death throes fade, we become Republic, develop for some time and after the Libraries, Marketplaces etc are done, start on modernising and expanding our armies, then aim for a GA against whoever. The war need not last long, and with the armies we should have, won't last long. Then we sit back and enjpy the glory of our GA!

	10-10-2002 16:06									#6
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If nothing else it will make for a good new chalenge

	10-10-2002 18:17									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

For some reason I can't vote in this poll, add one to the uphold the Monarchy side.

	10-10-2002 18:32									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha For some reason I can't vote in this poll, add one to the uphold the Monarchy side.

That's why you couldn't vote in the poll............

	10-10-2002 19:38									#9
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[demagogue mode]
A vote for Republic is a vote for Apolytonia!!
[/demagogue mode]

Seriously guys, Republic is a prerequisite (getting demagoguish again) for economic and scientific growth, and techs are getting expensive!! Soon we won't be able to afford buying techs anymore and have to research them on our own.

	10-10-2002 21:02									#10
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Obviously, the Apolytonian Republican Front fully supports the immediate move to Republic and anything necessary to make such a wonderful government stable and productive. We assert that this is not only the right thing to do, but also the pragmatic thing to do! Only a truly foolish or truly dastardly individual could possibly oppose it!

	10-10-2002 21:04									#11
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Voted yes. I'm in agreement with Shiber with Republic being profitable.

On the all citizens to tax men:

Be sure that no native Appolyn citizen would strave.

It's quite okay for a foreigner to strave though and this might allow us to pick up some support of the ARE.

Per city cost benifit analysis needs done on rushing Temple vs switching to entertainer and waiting for the Temple to finish, but that's a city planner issue.

	10-10-2002 21:13									#12
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IIRC citizens don't need to eat during periods of civil unrest (which is experienced during anarchy).

I'd like to hear more opinions on the following subjects:

1. Rushing temples in the Uber Isle towns of AGC, BFM and Boom Town this turn (will cost 144 gold) or some time during the next turnchat before the switch to Republic takes place.
2. Switching all citizens to tax men during the period of anarchy. Since they won't be working we can at least make them produce some gold.

	10-10-2002 21:14									#13
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Shiber, thanks for getting to posting this I know we batted this around in PMs around a week ago and we'd both wanted to post it before... but I've been sorta "busy" over the past several days with a certain election campaign So mega thanks for just taking the initiative to gather what you had, work out any additional stuff, and post it already!

	10-10-2002 21:17									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Shiber 2. Switching all citizens to tax men during the period of anarchy. Since they won't be working we can at least make them produce some gold.

I would find it quite amusing if this actually works... never even thought of doing this before!

	10-10-2002 22:08									#15
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Shiber, I know that citizens still need to eat during anarchy.

I have had a citizen strave in the one turn anarchy switching between Republic and Democracy due to the minus one food in all squares that would normally produce 3+ food under Anarchy / Despotism rule on a city that just grew without Graineries.

	10-10-2002 22:16									#16
	Support Apolyton

Go! Go! Republic! Regarless of the GA debate, in our current situation, we will fall behind in tech with Monarchy. No matter who or what, tech gives better units and better improvements. Plus we still got a lot of jungle to clear.

quote: I... calculated that if we switch to Republic this turn our income would rise from 127 gpt to ~155 gpt.

Shiber --

Is this including the potential military drain?

	10-10-2002 22:18									#17
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I checked and you're absolutely right. Thanks for correcting me.
I'd like to raise a different proposal: that we maximize food production over shields and commerce during the 1 turn of anarchy and turn any laborers that don't produce any food into tax men.

	10-10-2002 22:39									#18
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After much thought I hereby declare for republic. We can always switch back during war time if war weariness gets to bad. The civilian government could then be restored after the threat has passed. So I say why not.
Aggie

	10-10-2002 23:09									#19
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Republic after the war with America or Republic right now?

	11-10-2002 00:25									#20
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I voted YES. The Republic is necessary for further growth, and will soon become a dire necessity. (Remember that the workers become more efficient, and although I usually like rainforest conservation we need to get to clearing our jungle.) As long as we switch when our war weariness is low/gone and we are otherwise properly configured for the change it can do us no harm. Obviously we should wait until after America is no more before switching. Even after switching if we want to go to war it won't be too much of a problem. We could either switch to Monarchy (sort of a temporary state of emergency thing) or plan to have all the happiness inducing city improvements possible built before war is declared (which is a good idea anyway, especially since most of them also produce culture). Plus unless WE are the agressors of the war the war weariness effect is not unmanageble. Later. Let us be FREE!

	11-10-2002 00:25									#21
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My suggestion (and what I'm basing my plans on) are to Rush some last minute stuff on Turn 0. Then to change to Republic on the next turn.

E_T

	11-10-2002 00:38									#22
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I strongly recommend that we switch to Republic only after America is finished (3 turns from now). Reason:

Each player has a war weariness value that is kept throughout the game. It changes according to the situation in each one of the last 20 turns, which is affected by the number of units in enemy territory (more units = more WW), the number of enemy units in your territory (more units = more WW) and whether you were the aggressor or not (you = more WW). War weariness disappears only after your nation has been in a state of peace for the last 20 turns.
Our war weariness from the Persian war was high and is still high. Although we are currently using a government type that does not give expression to war weariness the computer still keeps record of it, so if we attack America we will wake up some of the war weariness that is left from the Persian campaign, which ended only recently. In addition, we will be facing war weariness from the American campaign.
Frankly, I don't know how many cities will be severely affected by this and how bad WW is really going to be, nor do I think that anyone else does. Instead of risking that many of our most productive cities go into civil disorder and losing a lot of potential shields and commerce in the process, why not wait 3 turns until America is finished?

My understanding of WW is based on threads that I've read in the Civ3 General forum.

	11-10-2002 02:50									#23
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Well, the poll results show a very strong desire for the change, and we'll most likely be changing right after we finish America. And we won't be triggering a GA for a bit still.

Does that sum it up nicely?

E_T

	11-10-2002 03:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Well, the poll results show a very strong desire for the change, and we'll most likely be changing right after we finish America. And we won't be triggering a GA for a bit still. Does that sum it up nicely?

I hope so. Let'e hope there are no suprises.

	11-10-2002 03:45									#25
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I am strongly in favor of a Republic. I think Apolytonia can prosper greatly with this government. You guys need the faster tech rate.

	11-10-2002 06:00									#26
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I strongly favor the Republic. Only after we finish America, of course.

	11-10-2002 20:10									#27
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hi ,

yes , no doubt about it !

aldo we should not finish abe of all the way , ...

have a nice day

	11-10-2002 20:33									#28
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I glanced over the log.

Aztecs took Boston, (but lost their army first), and we took New York, eliminating Abe.

I didn't notice what the Aztecs gave us to join in.

	11-10-2002 20:52									#29
	Remove this text

Yes... Abe is now gone... on to the Republic!

All glory to the Apolytonian Republic!

(or would that be the Republic of Apolytonia? )