10-10-2002 22:56									#1
	A little advice on my game needed Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, finally I got a good game going on Regent, nice starting position, 2 chokepoints to keep the 4 other civ's from entering my part of the continent (which is about as big as all their's together ), good tech booty from huts, constant barbarian assaults have cost me some workers but also made most of my units elite, and so on. I'm at the start of the middle ages now, and some things are bothering me. First off, as you can see on the screenie I attached, the Romans have gotten notice of the massive amounts of land behind the chokepoints, so after a couple of tries to get there by land (which caused 2 wars, both of which they gave up after a turn or 10 of massive horseman beating ), they now found out that they can easily get there by galley. And now I'm stuck with a couple of Roman cities, and the Zulus seem to have thought of the same, as I saw a galley pass on the west coast not long ago. NB, Blueish = Romans, Dark Red = Japanese, Pinkish = Indians, Yellowish = Zulu, and I am the Chinese. I have am a couple of techs ahead of them, but I haven't gotten into contact yet with the 4 other civs somewhere in the world. As far as I can see, I have a couple of options to secure my continent:
1) Don't make a big deal of it and get the cities by culture later on. This shouldn't be that hard because I already have temples in most cities surrounding the Roman ones and libraries will be coming up soon, but I don't know how much cities they will be able to plant on my continent before I've got the continent locked up.
2) Wait until I have researched Chivalry (as you can see it only needs a couple of more turns) and mass-build Riders to destroy their cities and defend the chokepoints. I'm swimming in horse and iron, and Sun Tzu's will be finished in a couple of turns, so I'd have barracks everywhere and can really start pooping out Riders at a good rate. BUT this will mean another war with the stinky Romans, and probably the Zulu's as well. I'm pretty sure the Indians and Japanese won't like that much either, so they'd probably join in the war and try to grab their share of my land. Which I won't let them

So in a turn or 10 I can either have Riders & Pikemen vs. their Horsemen, Swordsmen, & Spearmen, and a war with probably everyone, or libraries and a focus on settlers to lock down the continent, while still building my culture.

Advice, any of you experts out there?

Attachment: civ3.jpg
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	10-10-2002 23:07									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Those little outlier cities are meaningless. Don't get hung up on them. The cities that matter are the AI's core cities - the ones that actually produce things. Those are the ones you want to destroy or take. If you have an advantage, USE IT.

I suggest taking a large strikeforce of Riders straight into the heart of each neighbor. Cut out their hearts... their extremeties will wither and die.

Your #1 priority should be setting up a good Palace/FP axis, and developing your two core regions. Conquest of the AI civs isn't the imperative - hurting them beyond repair is. You can mop up later with ease.

-Arrian

	11-10-2002 02:16									#3
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Riders, and put serial smack-downs on Rome, India, and Zulu. Get yourself a few GLs for the medieval Wonderfest.

You also need a LOT more workers... slaves'll do just fine.

	11-10-2002 02:40									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

A war with Riders should trigger your Golden Age. Then you can pretty much do what you like for twenty turns. What you should do now is prepare for when you get chivalry. You should do what you can to maximize production so you will be able to kick out those Riders even before you go to war. Collect some cash to upgrade any horsies you have.

	11-10-2002 04:40									#5
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A turn or 30 have passed now and 4 turns after I invented Chivalry, I assaulted the Roman empire with 20 Riders, and a couple scouring the borders of my empire for wandering archers & stuff. I razed their size 7+ border cities, and didn't bother taking the others, so I went on straight to Rome. Captured Rome, and by now it's hungered down to 6. Captured nearby size 10, 6, and 9 cities, got 2 GL's, and am now moving to the last size 7+ city. Pretty much the rest of their cities is what they captured from Japan, so the Romans are out of game. My Riders really kicked their legions around. As far as I know, no other civs have Knights yet, so I might just be able to rush into India as well, soon. Heroic Epic is almost finished, and I found a nice city for the FP

Thanks guys

	11-10-2002 05:30									#6
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BTW, with out a save it is hard to see, but it looks like you have most of the land covered? If so how did they land and move out with out violating your borders? You should have been able to block or kill those settlers when they disembarked. The one open spot I saw, I would have had a horsemen sit on and as many others as needed to prevent the landing, unless there are so many openings that I can't see to prevent it.

	11-10-2002 06:28									#7
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I'm playing on a large map, and I haven't yet been able to build cities on all the shores, so it wasn't too hard for them to get through without violating my territory. I'll post a big screenie of the world map tomorrow, so you can see it. They often try to get through my chokepoints though, and they return like good dogs when I block the way. It's funny because some Zulu settlers walked all the way up to the rightmost chokepoint while I was fighting the romans, and I blocked them up just a few turns before they arrived. That's a 20 turn walk back The Indians were a little smarter and have now built cities on the Roman wastelands, but no matter, they don't stand a chance inbetween heavily armed Canton and Rome with the Hanging Gardens and loads of other culture stuff.

Come to think of it, it might be time to send a boat across the map.

	11-10-2002 08:02									#8
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I was about to say wait and cuture out those cities but it seems waging war payed off for you. I usually get torn up on Regent while fighting early wars. One of my recent games I lost in 15 minutes maybe. I fought Babylon at my choice and they beat me back pretty bad and the next thing I knew, 3 other countries jumped in and took city after city until I lost them all. There was absolutely no way I could have stopped them.

	11-10-2002 08:07									#9
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I always build a good force of swordsmen for early war. Horses used to be good, but they don't seem to be able to retreat as much.

When I get close to Chivalry, I do build horses just so they can be upgraded.

And yes Regent is a big step above Warlord.

	11-10-2002 18:24									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here's the map of my game the way it is right now. As you can see I have expanded a little along the coasts and up north, took all of the Roman cities above the chokepoint, but didn't pay attention and left a hole open for the zulu's to plant 2 cities. No biggie, I'll get them later. Rome was a piece of cake; I conquered/razed all but 2 of their original cities, and offered a peace treaty for 1 other city. Unfortunately, they've got Japan down to 2 cities and seem to be doing quite well down there. Nevertheless they've lost a lot in this war, and I just lost a couple of Riders. Also, they're now sulphur-less, so I can make a good bargain there.

India is becoming annoying, I might want to attack them before they get musketeers. I've got a good force of 30+ Riders at my borders so perhaps that's an option. The Zulus aren't to be taken serious; they've got 1 source of horses and iron each, and no sulphur, musketeers, or knights. Almost no luxuries either. I don't think I'll war with them, though. I'm not much of a warmonger. But I might need to show them who's boss anyway

Astronomy will be researched in 3 turns, then I'll send out a caravel to the other world.

	11-10-2002 18:25									#11
	Remove this text

*ahem* Here's the map.

40 White dots within green borders

Attachment: civ32.jpg
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	11-10-2002 18:31									#12
	Got spare money?

Ok, you're doing well... now keep going! Definitely open a can of whoopass on whomever is pink. 30 Riders is good, but I'd suggest building some more. Make cutting off their strategic resources your #1 priority (saltpeter and iron in particular).

Regarding sending a ship to discover the rest of the world, remember that even a caravel will sink in "ocean" squares until you discover navigation or magnetism.

I would also strongly encourage you to finish settling your continent prior to making contact overseas.

-Arrian

	11-10-2002 18:38									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Regarding sending a ship to discover the rest of the world, remember that even a caravel will sink in "ocean" squares until you discover navigation or magnetism.

I'm guessing that my Caravel would be able to make it from the westmost point of the continent - Zulu territory.

quote: I would also strongly encourage you to finish settling your continent prior to making contact overseas.

That's a good idea, thanks.

	11-10-2002 18:52									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The game is won even without more conquest (so long as you manage your cities reasonably). Personally I wouldnt bother to go after the "pinkys". Depending on where my capitol and forbidden palace are located, I would just finish colonizing the remainder of the continent to prevent AI colonization then absorb those irritating AI cities with culture.

	11-10-2002 19:17									#15
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Well, Spencer is right that you don't NEED to whack the pinkos. But doing it will almost certainly be a good thing for your empire. You will gain cities and resources (do they have a luxury you don't?), and you will have the opportunity to generate more great leaders. Furthermore, you will break another AI civ. That's one less civ that can later attack you or trade things to the other AIs. Besides, I'm a big fan of continental conquest. If you can take down the pinkos with your Riders, then you can mop up the rest with Cavalry.

-Arrian

	11-10-2002 19:27									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Its nice to have a continent to yourself, it just seems tidier that way. Generating GL's is a good reason to keep some (weak) enemies nearby (I learned that from th AI )

	12-10-2002 01:59									#17
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Prince,

You have a won game. You have a good civ and most land. The only question is how do you want to win? Some options that come to mind:

A. Culture
1. Secure rest of open continent
2. needle Zulu to attack India
3. when land opens, remove out of there production.
4. actually GW are not needed. What you need is a ton of cities with
-- lib
-- temple
-- cathedrals
-- universities
-- colloseums
-- research labs
5. Key here is to build early.


B. Conquest: middle ages
1. prepare for cav warfare
2. get 30 units you can upgrade to cav
3. build cash so you can afford to upgrade
4. 10 turns before cav, get Zulu && DarkGreen civ to declare war with India.
5. Your goal is to be the third front clean up patrol

C. Conquest: industrial ages
1. keep other civs happy during middle ages
2. build up infrastructure
-- happy cities
-- as many large cities as possible
-- resource trading
3. get smith's
4. early industrial, get basics
-- RR [troop movement}
-- hospital {Battlefield med}
-- replace parts
-- nationalism {mil alliance}
5. Middle Ind Ages, start war
-- core cities all military production
except for 2
-- military force:
20-30 cav {long range resource removal and close in unit removal}
10-20 cannon {weaken first}
30+ infantry
You will not advance fast, but with MA vs India it should be easy. Next I would take out Zulu because they are trigger happy anyway and by this time have lost advantage of UU.

D. Conquest: modern age
1. keep everyone happy
2. build at least "avg" military with strongest known civ
3. build as many military generator cities as you can, with:
-- 10+ citizens
-- temple
-- courthouse
-- cathedral
-- police stations {for long wars}
-- courthouses {for WW}
-- banks {need 5 in civ}
-- factories
-- marketplaces
-- hydro/nuclear plants
-- manufacturing plants
4. Your goal is to have at least 10 Generators up by the time you get tanks. Then you can spit out 4-6 tanks/turn, forever.
5. Build defensive military prior to tanks, mostly infantry.
6. While waiting for tanks, encourage other civs to fight each other.
7. Dangers you need to watch for as indicators you can't wait to develop this plan:
a. one other civ is 300+ points above you and the rest
b. falling behind in productivity && GNP
c. other civs won't make MPP with you.


Again, with a won game the only question is how do you want to end it.


-- PF

	12-10-2002 04:22									#18
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Thanks planetfall, I'll consider the options

'Neway, here's the new view. As you can see I chose confusing colours for this map, sorry 'bout that. Dark green (northwest of the west continent) is English, Grey (northeast of west continent) is France, who have just been through a long war with Brown, the Germans. The biggest threat on that continent, along with Bismarck, is Hammurabi, 'the other pink', I mean purple

However, I think I overreacted a little when someone said 'military' I have loads and loads of Cavalry & Riders sitting idle in Nanking & Canton, and in the military screen it says my army is strong compared to.. well.. everyone! So it would be very hard for me to *not* conquer someone, now Just who'll it be... Not on my own continent, that's boring, besides, I'm doing good trade with all of them. Maybe the Babylonians, they seem to have a nice piece of land with plenty of coal and some spices & furs, all of which I don't have an abundance. I'm swimming in Incense and Gems, but they have plenty as well, so I won't get it easily by trade. Perhaps that's a job for my Cavalry, then.

I'll never win through conquest, I don't have the patience, but I might win by domination. Taking Hammurabi's share certainly wouldn't hurt me, anyway. All the major wonders are well on their way, Nationalism is a turn away, and I was the first one to enter the Industrial age. My RR network is being worked on - yup, things are nice. Time for Monarch?

Attachment: civ33.jpg
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	12-10-2002 19:24									#19
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I agree with Arrian on continental conuqest. However, if you don't want to do that, you'll need a lot of transports. Unless you don't want to attack the babs when already within their borders (makes bad reputation), you'll also need a lot of defending units to protect your attacking ones when they disembark. If you attack, you should go for the capital and the other oldest cities as they provides most culture and you have none on that continent.

As an alternative, you can attack the penninusla on the west in the Babylonian empire giving you a city with a chokepoint, then ask for peace followed by you transporting in reinforcements