11-10-2002 22:31									#1
	Point of order: Fortify Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Er... I've been wondering about this for a while. When I go into the "General Settings" of the editor, in the defense bonuses area there is an entry marked "Fortification", with a value of 25 (given as a percent). There is a seperate entry for "Fortress", which is 50, so presumably "Fortification" does not simply mean being in a fortress, and going into the help and clicking on "Fortification" reveals that this is in fact the entry for the bonus a fortified unit gets. And I recently re-installed CivIII, so if I did accidentally make some change to the default .bic (although I scrupulously avoid doing so; besides, I'm heartily in favor of defensive bonuses, so I wouldn't have lowered it...) it would presumably have been cleared.

Unfortunately, I do not have the manual handy so I can't check to see what it says (hee hee, as if it had any authority). But anyways, since my default .bic says fortified units have a 25% defense bonus and most of the threads in here say 50% (which, I am aware, is traditionally the fortify bonus for Civ games), someone has to be smoking crack. Who?

	11-10-2002 22:39									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Fortified = 25%
Fortress = 50%

	11-10-2002 22:57									#3
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I'm wondering what the defensive bonuses of 16 for citizen and building are ... i assume something to do with bombardment but does anyone know the exact mechanics involved?

Cheers
~Thadalex

	11-10-2002 23:06									#4
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Theseus is right - I'm not sure why the "50% bonus for fortified units" myth is so widespread.

TA - the defense rating of 16 is precisely for bombarment purposes. The way bombarment works in Civ 3 is that a bombaring unit has a "bombarment value" and a "Rate of Fire" or RoF. RoF is esstially the number of "battles" or die rolls each bombarment makes (i.e., the number of hit points it could conceviably take from a unit if successful on all die rolls).

When bombarding a city, there are a couple of die rolls. First, a die roll to determine what is targeted: (1) defending unit; (2) citizens; or (3) building. IIRC, the chances, respectively, are 50%, 25%, 25%. With the target selected, the bombardment commences -- it then works very much like regular combat -- that bombardment value is the "A" of the attacking unit, and the defensive value is the "D" of a defender, or 16 if the target is a citizen or building.

I haven't ever seen more than one citizen or one building destroyed from any bombardment, and so I assume that if targeted, the bombardment "stops" with success (even if additional RoF's were available).

Catt

	12-10-2002 02:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Catt ... With the target selected, the bombardment commences -- it then works very much like regular combat -- that bombardment value is the "A" of the attacking unit, and the defensive value is the "D" of a defender, or 16 if the target is a citizen or building. ...

Ah, but what of the city size bonus?
Do cits/buildings have a greater defense in a metro?

	12-10-2002 02:58									#6
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Thanks catt, good to know. I guess thats why my catapults rarely break any buildings

Cheers
~Thadalex

	12-10-2002 03:29									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Ah, but what of the city size bonus? Do cits/buildings have a greater defense in a metro?

I do not think so, but I have never tried to confirm it.

Catt

	13-10-2002 23:38									#8
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Isn't it a 50% bonus for units (don't know about buildings) it 7-12 cities, and 100% in 13+ cities ?

	14-10-2002 00:24									#9
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quote: Originally posted by JNL Isn't it a 50% bonus for units (don't know about buildings) it 7-12 cities, and 100% in 13+ cities ?

Yes, we know it is for units. Are you implying that it is also for citizens?

	14-10-2002 00:47									#10
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Page 83 of the manual say "The larger the settlements population the better the innate defense it provides to military units..." It does not define the bonus.
The Prima guide says +50% city 7-12, 100% metro 13+ size, Page 173.

	14-10-2002 13:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Yes, we know it is for units. Are you implying that it is also for citizens?

No I don't (don't know for buildings & citizens)

	14-10-2002 18:01									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Catt I haven't ever seen more than one citizen or one building destroyed from any bombardment, and so I assume that if targeted, the bombardment "stops" with success (even if additional RoF's were available). Catt

I have... I have had stealth bombers taking out 2 buildings or 1 citizen and 1 building (maybe also 2 citizens, but I'm not sure). This was however a result in my personal mod, with increased bombard and RoF for stealths

	14-10-2002 18:26									#13
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Catt,

The "50% fortification myth" is probably widespread because that was the bonus in CivII.

-Arrian