12-10-2002 22:24									#1
	I suck at Civ 3! Support Apolyton

I've tried several strategies, but it seems like I'm out of the game by the Middle Ages. On several games, I can't even build any wonders! Basically, I suck!

What I am looking for is someone to share advice, and hopefully their tech tree progression. I'm also hoping for someone to share their build queue. Do I need to load up and wage an early war? Or should I concentrate on science? What are some of the Wonders that I should build? When I capture a city, what do I need to do to build up the culture so that they don't revolt? Any other helpful hints?

I usually end up falling behind and having to play catchup. I usually make some alliances with the superpowers and then try to get back in the game by smashing another minor power to take their resources. However, the major powers usually take more of the weakling's cities than I do!

Thanks so much for all of the help!

	12-10-2002 23:26									#2
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There are a bunch of good threads, but if you want some progress report type help just run a story with saves posted for others to load and make comments. You could make your normal choices out to around the 500ad and post. Maybe keep a few saves before that in case it is useful to back up and try a different tactic. As to war or not early or tech choices and wonders are very dependant on the level and situation. Even with a good standard plan, you willl see an opportunity to do something that will alter the plan. Falling behind is standard on all but the lowest levels, how far behind is a function of your location, skills, and difficulty and some times luck.

	12-10-2002 23:42									#3
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Looks like I found my apponent for MP

Will you be getting PTW

	12-10-2002 23:57									#4
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Do not worry Aias. I had the same problem when I first started Civ3 and I have finished the game only once in Chieftan. Go at the strategy forum and read those posts. They rock indeed! And find a civ that matches ur playing style. You will do well in a few games.

Btw: SUPER STRATEGY:

Build MANY cities early on. That was my main problem when playing, which resulted in my humiliation from the French (!) attacking my empire...

	13-10-2002 00:29									#5
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One excellent strategy is to play on a lower level.

Another is to post a save of a game and ask for help. Preferably in the ancient era so we can see the details and point and laugh.

Basicly though build enough cities. Make good use of your workers and be sure to have enough of them. Don't automate anything till late in the game. If that is boring play on a smaller map.

Start several games with no intention of finishing them. Use your saves to explore other paths you might have gone down but didn't.

	13-10-2002 01:20									#6
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Aias, check the threads referenced here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59216

Start with the "Winning early" thread.

As others have said, post a SAV.

	13-10-2002 04:47									#7
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I have not had much time to play, but I have the most cities, yet that I know of, and all of a sudden, I seem to be falling behind even the ones that I know, like the Chinese and England. I started a game with 12 Civ's and it seems to be to much for me.

I think it was when they went to being a Republic first, and I stayed a Monarchy for a few turns too many.
But Germany must be further ahead, and I do have a lot of cities - around 35 cities on a huge map.

I think it will take some time to get use to this new CivIII.
I have no luxuries, and China will not trade any, but says he will trade. I am about ready to 'kick his hiney', so maybe he is looking for a War.

I think I might replay this from earlier, as this is the second version of the same game I started.
I am just keeping different versions of this game, for reference, even though they play out differently.

I think one has to skip some techs, up the tree, especially in the Middle Ages, more focused type of research, but then pick up the other ones later, to get to the next age after picking up the techs one decided to get early.

That's all I am thinking, but then back to other things I have to do, so that's all I can suggest right now.

I seemed to be ahead, then in a few turns, fell behind.
Its about even though somehow on Regent level, but I may start another game on Warlord.

In Civ II it took me a while to get to King level, and that was not all that good. Just have to keep playing and some games will be better starting off than others.

No luxuries, is really draining this game a bit, as England has none to trade and China has them but will not, and the other Civ's are somewhere else, meaning I have not met them yet. Only can get so far on the map with the Galley.

Well, whatever it is, it may involve a skimish with China first.

	13-10-2002 06:13									#8
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On huge maps the AI will just keep cranking out cities until no land is left and Civ2 players will tend to want to stop making cities and skip the less than great spots. Those can be fatal choices. If they get all the land, they get all the resources and lux. Again post a game as that makes things clear to see.

	13-10-2002 22:28									#9
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Dead right you cant apply Civ2 to this baby,my first ever game on regent cause I thought Id have no probs being a Civ 2 vet Hammurabi slaughtered me for not giving him a tech and some gold.Next game I notched down to warlord for a rest and did much better until I told Cathy to get off my land and she kicked me out on my arse,main problem that time was not building enough cities early on,Russia was massive almost like real life.Needless to say my next game was on Chieftan which I won with spacerace but it took many hours of gameplay and thread reading here and elsewhere to now be able to play confidently at regent and just starting to tackle monarch level.Just keep at it .

	14-10-2002 12:28									#10
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Everyone has many words. It comes down to...

Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Warrior, Settler...

and so on. As your cities build the second Settler free them to build other things. Stick to that 2 friends make 2 friends for the first 10 or 12 cities and you should do well. No matter what else you do at lower levels.

	14-10-2002 13:04									#11
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What I like about Aias is that he came here saying "I suck" and not "Civ3 sucks", like others we know very well.

I can only echoe others suggestions:
- read the threads from Theseus' link
- post specific questions with savegames or screeshots
- become a "veteran" Apolytoner

	14-10-2002 18:51									#12
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I started playing civ3 about 3 months ago, I thought it would be easy 'cause I was a veteran SMAC player but I learned a lesson in humility on warlord but now I play emperor.
It's good to play 1 or 2 games on chieftain but not too many because you will start to develop bad habits which you must overcome if you want to play on the higher levels and like the others said read a lot around here especially about starting strategies on how to expand and such.
Good luck

	14-10-2002 21:43									#13
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Aias--

Civ3 is designed to take time to learn. Best advice:

1. play smaller, standard size map
2. play fewer civs, 3-6 til you get a feel for the uniqueness of each civ.
3. post saves and minimaps and ask, ask, ask.
4. balance play time with forum post/reading time

Enjoy

--PF

	15-10-2002 04:04									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

yes you do need to go to early war.

Smash your neighbors. Smash them as soon as you are able to win. Wage war on their territory not yours.

	15-10-2002 04:16									#15
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I'll post my strategy. I'm by far not an expert. I play on the 3rd difficulty level. I think it is Regent. So I don't know the expert Emporer/Diety stategies.

First off expand quickly. Take all land you can. You never know what resources may pop up on it later on. I play the Aztecs so I start out with a jag warrior. If I can, I build a settler immediately. You will have to estimate how fast your city will grow from 2 to 3 to accomplish this. If you city grows too slow build a warrior first. But build that first settler as soon as possible.

Basically keep expanding until you run out of room. Trade all techs with the ai no matter what they are. This will usually keep them happy. Keep building warriors (later on archers/horseman) intermixed with settlers. When you run out of room build some barracks and start a steady progression of units. You will need them when your units start dying. Amass units just at the edge of the border to the civ nearest you. Don't worry about trying to provoke war, just declare war on them. Smash them as fast as you can. The faster you go, the less they can respond to it. Just don't overextend yourself obviously.

I suggest conquering all civs on your continent, although other suggest keeping virtual vassal states whatever that means. I have never done that.

After you clear the continent build up infrastructre get map making and get some galleys out there. Do a little exploration, keeping in mind to finish your turn within sight of land. Try to find civs on other continents to trade with. Also build cities on any nearby islands. Try to get between 25 and 30 cities even on a standard map (the one I usually play).

My last game I was cutting it short. I should have run a few wars accross the ocean once I discovered magnetism and had reliable ships. I let England build up a little too much, I just barely beat them in the space race. England was conquering all the other civs and I did nothing to stop this. I suggest not letting other civs take over all the other civs. If they get more than 30 cities they will become too powerful. Try to keep them under 30 cities even in you have to raze the cities you take.

	16-10-2002 00:03									#16
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One can always turn off some 'Win' Conditions. I take off the Domination win, as it may help to keep some land free, but then the 'Conquest' win was also on, so the Civ's will probably expand to all the land.

It's mass mayhem and confusion.

One can just leave on the 'Build a Spaceship to leave this Planet' win condition on, but then if you play SMAC (Alpha Centauri) then you end up on -- "Planet". Splat!
Splat! Splat! with the other factions.

	16-10-2002 02:03									#17
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quote: SMAC (Alpha Centauri) then you end up on -- "Planet". Splat!

That was one of my problems with Alpha Centauri. NO ONE would call the planet "Planet". It made it hard to read the manual. I never got around to installing it.

Hello what planet are you from?

Planet.

Yes thats what I was asking, what planet are you from?

Planet.

Its a bloody Abbot and Costello routine waiting to happen.

	16-10-2002 02:25									#18
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Ethelred, if you still have SMAC, you should give it a shot, I suspect you will enjoy it. I got burned out and no longer play it, but it was fun.

	16-10-2002 02:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Ethelred, if you still have SMAC, you should give it a shot, I suspect you will enjoy it. I got burned out and no longer play it, but it was fun.

I saw SMAC at NICE PRICE in the supermarket for about €8 (same in $). Is it worth it, now that I have CIV3?

	16-10-2002 03:51									#20
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SMAC is a fun game, i played a bunch last summer...some of the game play issues would piss me off now if i were playing it, like the fact that troops are still suported by individual cites, but the game itself is good fun.

	16-10-2002 04:54									#21
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Smac is great. Yeah I guess troops still are supported by individual cities. But oh well. It is much easier to play as a builder in that game.

And maybe I suck at civ3 now. I almost got my ass handed to me. No I didn't lose all my cities. But my normal conquering of the continent didn't go as planned.

Just for a change I decided to play as "random" since I seen other people do it, and I play the aztecs too much. I ended up as the americans. And waging early war was tough. I actually needed a golden age but couldn't get it. And I left culturally linked starting positions on. My first enemy was the Iroquios. I thought I could run right through them even with their mounted warriors. I was wrong. I took one of their cities then they took one of mine and their original city back. I managed to get my city back, but I had to give it back to them to sue for peace because they got the aztecs and Indians to declare war on me. I was not expecting them to declare war on me and I lost a couple of cities.

I didn't lose, but there is little chance I can win. Maybe when I get into the industrial age and get something to overcome the Iroquios uu. but until then...

I just retired . I hate the americans.

So part of the game is what faction you play and who your neighbors are. Geography also plays a roll. I was in a bad spot, and had too many areas to defend. Against one enemy that is fine, but against 3, I cannot defend that much territory.

and I thought anarchy would never end. I missed religious

	16-10-2002 05:20									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident And maybe I suck at civ3 now. I almost got my ass handed to me. No I didn't lose all my cities. But my normal conquering of the continent didn't go as planned.

I doubt that you suck at civ3. You posted a viable strategy awhile back. I bet if you work on getting more out of your empire, you would be whacking civs at regent. Look at CFC thread by cracker on opening moves.

SMAC came out at a very good time as nothing much was around for TBS players as I recall.

	16-10-2002 05:32									#23
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yeah I was just trying to play the Americans like the aztecs, plus my starting position sucked.

But I never restart if I have a bad starting position. I almost always try to play it through and see what I can make of my empire. It can be challenging as it was today.

	16-10-2002 23:25									#24
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Dissident, I think because the Iroquios used their UU, they triggered their golden age, so that made them have higher production, if you fight a long war then they will win.
You could have won if you had enough troops to wack them in just a few turns.

	26-10-2002 07:55									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

Firstly, thank you to everyone who has taken interest in my plight!

I've played a game and I discovered the Japanese rather quickly. With 8 warriors, I quickly took their only city (however, I didn't get a message that I has distroyed them. Much later in the game, I discovered that they had a small group of cities on the opposite side of the 'globe'!). The area that they origionally had turned out to have tons of resources, especially later ing the game. This pretty much set me up as the superpower, so now I have everyone ganging up against me!

However, I tried this strategy in another game. I didn't conquer them straight off. So, while I was fighting the Egyptians, the other civs had boxed us in!

I'll have to read all of the replies to my post (I have been out of town for a while) and try some of the strategies out!

Thanks again

	26-10-2002 09:14									#26
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Note that if respawn is enabled and you put a civ out early in the game they will given new life somewhere.

	26-10-2002 19:50									#27
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Sorry you suck. Wanna play some PBEM?

	28-10-2002 14:18									#28
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What you do early has a bearing on the whole game. Here's how I start.

• Don't be afraid to restart if you've got a cruddy starting position. Being placed in the middle of the jungle or desert isn't good for your long-term prospects.
  
• You may need to walk your settler around to find a good spot for your first city. For example, if you're near a river, build your city right next to the river, so you don't have to build an aqueduct. But if you have to take more than 1 or 2 steps, restart. Usually, your start position should be fine as it is.
  
• When you build your city, choose Bronze Working as your first science to research so you can get Spearmen. Then set your tax slider so your science is progressing as fast as possible without running a trade deficit. If you start with Bronze Working, research stuff like Iron Working, Warrior Code, The Wheel and Horseback Riding, so you can get good military units early. Then beeline for Literacy so you can get the Great Library.
  
• What you do with your first worker is important. You need to place a road in the square that the citizen in your city is working. This gives you 1 extra trade so your science is researched faster. Good squares to work early are those that generate 2 food and 1 shield on their own, such as a shield grassland, a cow. If the square has a river next to it, the better because this gives a +1 trade bonus. You need to identify the best 3 squares and set all of them up with a road and a mine. Once the three squares are roaded and mined, your size-3 city will be a good producer.
  
• The map is uninhabited and unexplored. You need to fix that, and fast. The first thing to build in your city is a Warrior to defend it. Then build another Warrior to go exploring (skip this if you have a Scout). Your build queue should be something like Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Settler, etc. Adjust as needed. A size-2 city that will produce a Settler in 6 turns but grow in 8 should not be producing a Settler, because that's 2 turns of production wasted. Instead, produce a Warrior first. Keep churning out cities as fast as possible, and defend them with Spearmen when you are able to build them.
  
• Your exploration goal is to find good spots for your future cities. Look for resources and build your city near them. By researching the Wheel and Iron Working first, you get to find the crucial Ancient-age resources of Iron and Horses early so you can claim them.
  
• Keep expanding, but make sure all your cities are defended. Don't let settlers wander around unescorted.
  
• When you meet the AI, trade techs with them. Keep trading techs when you can. One tech acquired through trade is one tech that you don't have to research.
  
• Best techs to trade are those that nobody else has. The AI tends to research techs evenly. To get a tradeable tech, drill down through the tech tree, for things like The Republic, Navigation, etc.
  
• You can gain a headstart on Wonders by starting to build something else a few turns before you get the Wonder tech, then switching.