12-10-2002 23:25									#1
	Renew the Ivory Deal? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We are currently trading dyes and 10 gpt to Rome in exchange for their ivory, which is our 5th luxury. This 5th luxury is essential for keeping Gaia, Here It Is and Macross City in order without turning laboring citizens into specialists. However, with marketplaces in these cities a 5th luxury will not be necessary to keep them outside trouble.
We will renegotiate this deal in 560 AD. It is very possible that the Romans will demand more than dyes and 10 gpt for our ivory. They may demand 15 gpt, or more.
The question is: will we allow Rome to continue to extort us?

We are planning to rush a marketplace in Gaia before the renegotiation, and we'll do the same with HII and Macross shortly later when we can free up the necessary funds. My proposal is this:
If the Romans agree to continue the ivory deal for a lower price than dyes and 10 gpt, continue the deal. Otherwise, if they demand more, cancel the deal and switch one citizen in Here It Is and Macross City to entertainer to compensate for this. I believe that this is beneficial because yes, we will lose some money and shields because of this but those two cities will receive their marketplaces soon enough and we'll only have to waste a laboring citizen for a few turns, whereas continuing the deal will force us to pay much more than that!
15 gpt equals 300 gold. If we can remove the need for ivory and thus the heavy payment to Rome by turning one citizen to an entertainer for a few turns in HII and MC and then rushing a marketplace (which is something we are going to do anyway), why not do it?

	13-10-2002 00:15									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This issue is a good one to discuss.

I've been somewhat torn by which way to go and eventually sided with City Planner requests for the additional lux due to the fact that we're still highly underdeveloped.

I am willing to hear debate on this issue, although there's little time left to change my mind back before the turnchat.

--Togas

	13-10-2002 00:21									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Since you'll be attending the turnchat, I trust that you'll use your good judgement.

	13-10-2002 05:57									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The Greeks have ivory. Can we cut a better deal with them?

	13-10-2002 06:23									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmmm, is it possible to go for ivory... erm... without money?

	13-10-2002 23:21									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

the Ivory is essential, don't you see?
w/o it, we have 4 happy faces w/o a marketplace, and 6 with one.

no big deal, right?

On those large cities where we need the marketplace anyway, we will be facing some tough unhappiness issues, since every cities grows quickly thanks to the pyramids, and we are a Republic.

the ivory in this case, gives us another 3(!) happy faces, for a city with a marketplace, these three happy faces are another 3 content citizens that happily work the tiles and earn us alot more than the cost of the Ivory (15gpt+Dyes, from the Roman), creating more and more specialists as time passes and our cities grow will cost us much more than this.
I would say yes to ivory even for 20 gpt+Dyes, but it's only 5gpt more than we paid for, and as i pointed out, worth alot more.

	14-10-2002 00:01									#7
	Support Apolyton

A city with a temple and a cathedral and four luxuries or a marketplace and 4 luxuries can support a size 12 population.

	14-10-2002 00:31									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

- But building all that in those rapidly growing cities will take time, and in the meantime we're building those marketplaces anyway, so why not exploit those marketplaces to the max, both in terms of income and happiness? by the time we have a cathedral in those cities that are rioting right now, and those to come we'd waste lots of gold in specialists and/or rushes.

	14-10-2002 00:34									#9
	Put an end to popups!

First of all, the idea was not to let them fall into civil disorder by using entertainers until the marketplaces can be rushed.
Second, with a marketplace, a temple and a cathedral we get 6 happy people and 6 content and 0 unhappy in a size 12 city. This is already enough for a WLTKD - why need more happy faces than that? It would have been just a waste of 17 gpt, which is what the Romans wanted to continue the deal.