13-10-2002 01:08									#1
	IGN unit showcase 4 - gunpowder infantry, horse archers and bombers Full PM-box? Change here!

Guess I missed the 3rd unit showcase

http://pc.ign.com/articles/374/374161p1.html

Still looks interesting - if only Civ 3 had this many varities of units...

	13-10-2002 06:45									#2
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The gunpowder infantry is the way the rifleman should look in Civ3. I don't know why Civ went with the graphic of the deer hunter instead of something akin to the Redcoats or Napoleon's troops.

	13-10-2002 06:47									#3
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quote: All Bomber units require oil to keep them flying

Well, that's a change from other games. When you run out of oil, your bombers start collecting dust.

	13-10-2002 23:43									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I doubt they meant it quite so literally.

How do you think they meant it? From the context and all it did really seem like they meant that Bombers use up oil to fly.

	14-10-2002 06:32									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I think they mean the bomberes require oil to be built, and they were using a common American metaphor saying that , well, the bombers required oil to be built. Without oil, they would not be built eg "would not be flying at all" if it weren't for oil. Although if they did require oil......

Doesn't seem like a metaphor to me...I've certainly never heard anything like that, and I am an American.

	14-10-2002 16:49									#6
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I think Tassadar is right, but ity could be so that they requires oil to fly also. Probably they don't have range or bombnumber limits like most of other aircraft in RTS games (Empire Eearth - Range Limit, Dark Reign - bombnumber limit, Red Alert 2 - bombnumber limit, etc.), so a strategic thing of oil is added. You could theoretically keep them always in air but this way you'd have to have a huge supply of oil.

	14-10-2002 20:02									#7
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quote: All Bomber units require oil to keep them flying, so an astute player is ready with Oil Wells already at work, when he creates the first Zeppelin

Sounds to me very clear that it means that you have to have oil to keep them flying. "An astute player is ready with Oil Wells ... when he creates the first Zeppelin." This is opposite to "An astute player is ready with Oil Wells in time to build Zeppelins." See the difference? If this holds up, I think it is clear that you will need oil for each plane mission.

This leads to wonder of how many other units will need to have resources paid to keep them going. Maybe food will be a conitnuing necessity. Or perhaps ships will need wood after each battle. Upgraded units like tanks will need oil. It should be an interesting concept.

	14-10-2002 22:29									#8
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No units in RoN require upkeep. This is just unclear wording of the text.

	15-10-2002 08:27									#9
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Thanks BIG Paul.

	15-10-2002 09:16									#10
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Well I bow to the superior insight from others. I guess that makes sense.

Paul, how much is going to be to upgrade units from one stage to the next?

	16-10-2002 11:22									#11
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If I understand the previews right, it happens automatically at no additional cost.

edit: What I said here is a pile of doo.

Last edited by Carver on 19-10-2002 at 09:56

	16-10-2002 19:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Carver If I understand the previews right, it happens automatically at no additional cost.

I have the same impression. One 'taunternumerouno' got to play a build of RoN at the GenCon 2002 convention in Milwaukee this past summer, and he posted the following on RoNP:

quote: When you advance ages, your units change accordingly. For example, if you have archers and you update to the musket age(not its name but the one with muskets) your archers change automatically into musketeers.)Your buildings do the same.

This feature apparently prevents situations in which a player finds his tanks backed up by hoplites. I also have the impression that various purchasable upgrades will enhance the qualities of troops, so that the same units from various nations may actually perform differently.

	16-10-2002 21:13									#13
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Rohag, as far as I know there will be only 4 possible researches each age, out of which you'd be able to choose 2 to research. Those researches would be:
Military
Civic
Economic
Scientific

As for units automatically upgrading, I don't know... But after reading an article on IGn I've seen that there'll be two possible bombers in information age - Strategic and Stealth. And they are both named on the same family, so that seems Strategic Bomber will be upgradable to Stealth Bomber.

	17-10-2002 07:28									#14
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Whoa...units do not upgrade automatically when you advance to a new age. Unit upgrades cost resources and must be researched separately from age or other military technologies.

	17-10-2002 18:59									#15
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My regrets for disseminating faulty information. I misunderstood both taunternumerouno's experience and Dan Quick's interview with Brian Reynolds.

To clarify, are the previews and interviews saying that no "line" of units ever dead-ends?

Also, if I really want to (or if I forget to upgrade), I can back up my tanks with sword cavalry?

Last edited by Rohag on 17-10-2002 at 19:20

	19-10-2002 06:02									#16
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>To clarify, are the previews and interviews saying that no "line" of units ever dead-ends?

True dat. There are a few lines that merge into others at some points and a few that start later on, but no line ever just dies out.

But as Graham said - you *do* have to pay to upgrade your units to the next level. The cost to reserch the upgrade isn't really that much by itself (it varies depending on the unit line), however it's worth noting that the upgrade cost includes the production cost difference for units "in the field" that you are upgrading. This prevents folks from banking ancient age units then suddenly showing up with a horde of expensive later-age units on the cheap.

	19-10-2002 06:18									#17
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Thanks much for the clarification!

quote: Originally posted by bhg_paul ...it's worth noting that the upgrade cost includes the production cost difference for units "in the field" that you are upgrading. This prevents folks from banking ancient age units then suddenly showing up with a horde of expensive later-age units on the cheap.

Very clever! Does this mean that the player needs to carefully consider the costs of "aging up" (including post-advance unit upgrade costs) while in possession of a large military?

	19-10-2002 22:31									#18
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Not at all. The production cost adjustment is only applied to the unit upgrade cost of the appropriate unit lines. It has no effect on the cost of the age itself, nor does going up an age mandate that you actually upgrade your units. And, of course, you can select to upgrade some lines of units but not others.

	23-10-2002 06:19									#19
	Got spare money?

Thanks for the clarification. Seems like there are a bunch of options on how this works which is a good thing.

Only concern for me, is how this impacts flow of the game. Is it a jolting break from an RTS to be choosing what units to upgrade or is it a natural break? How have you implemented choosing what units to upgrade?

	23-10-2002 23:14									#20
	Re: Sorry! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Rohag My regrets for disseminating faulty information. I misunderstood both taunternumerouno's experience and Dan Quick's interview with Brian Reynolds. To clarify, are the previews and interviews saying that no "line" of units ever dead-ends? Also, if I really want to (or if I forget to upgrade), I can back up my tanks with sword cavalry?

A "unit line" is a the upgrade path units take. So horse archers would eventually become cavalry, and cavalry units become tanks. (edit: eep, didn't notice there was a second page...now I am slightly repetitive..still, some useful comments of mine here--or so I think--so I'll leave it)

Unlike what some have said, horse units were *never* truly used alongside tanks (so far as I know). Horsemen would be slaughtered by machine guns and tanks...as the Poles found out. While some horses were used often in ww2 by the germans and other armies, this was as beasts of burden only not in combat roles (except from technologically inferior countries).

Theoretically though, you might be able to not upgrade a line of horses (like sword-cavs) and upgrade another (like gun-cavs) and hence have horse and tanks...but if the game is realistic, those horse will get killed easily by tanks and machine guns. I assume upgrades are done for each of your existing unit-types seperately...that way makes the most sense anyhow.