14-10-2002 11:57									#1
	The Foreign ministries has "such a deal" for 590AD Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The Foreign Ministries has been working hard and has found a way to present "Such a Deal" to the Apolytonian population. In 590 AD, we plan to aquire, not one but TWO Technologies for our Great Nation! The change over to Republic (and the Great Banana) has inspired us to come up with the following deals to aquire the much needed technologies from our Neighboring Nations at "Such a Deal".

For details about the deal, please read my report in this post.

The Technologies that we plan to aquire are: Gunpowder & Banking.

This thread is now open for discussion.

E_T

	14-10-2002 12:38									#2
	Remove this text

You (tech)Whore!



Will this leave any money for the SMC to upgrade units?

	14-10-2002 12:48									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Togas had put a limit on technology buys at under 500 Lytons for a tech. We hope that we'll get two techs for about 750 lytons total (depends on the worth of our Dyes & WM to the Greeks) and should in reality be less. That's about 375 per tech.

Also, the last time we bought Technology from the Greeks, it was part of a deal with the Dyes, and we have been paying them 8 LPT (144 Lytons equivalent) for the last 20 turns, so you can "discount" that from the proposed buy and that comes to about 600 for the two techs.

It is "Such a Deal".
E_T

	14-10-2002 12:54									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The advantages of brilliant minds operating to produce the best results for a nation.

I commend you E_T on such brilliant work to procure such a good result.

	14-10-2002 13:02									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Excellent work.

And I am also interested about our remaining treasury.

	14-10-2002 13:26									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Torkkeli Excellent work. And I am also interested about our remaining treasury.

Togas will be working with the MoE about the finances for the deal.

At this moment, we really have no gaurantee that we will complete research on Printing Press before the "more advanced" Civs get it. The ministry has been frustrated with the possibility of not being able to use it in a trade bargain to aquire at least Gunpowder. The Technologies that we do have for trade, has not allowed us to get the needed Lyton income or tech trade, because of the state of the other Civs. Either they are Quite a bit ahead, or far enough behind to make it difficult to use them as we sould like to.

Just last turn, The Aztecs finally completed it's trade route with everyone else. They sold all of their spices for technologies that we already had. We had hoped that they would get Gunpowder while we still had a tech advantage and to trade some tech for it. Now they are just as advanced as us, and If they do get Gunpowder, we don't have anything that we can trade them for it.

The Iroquois still need Music Theory, so there is still hope in that respect. France still needs Education, but we are doubleful that they are researching Gunpowder. Babylon still needs to get Invention & Education, so they are out of the picture. Right now, this is the best way that we have to keep up with everybody else.

E_T

	14-10-2002 13:58									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by E_T Just last turn, The Aztecs finally completed it's trade route with everyone else. They sold all of their spices for technologies that we already had. We had hoped that they would get Gunpowder while we still had a tech advantage and to trade some tech for it. Now they are just as advanced as us, and If they do get Gunpowder, we don't have anything that we can trade them for it.

Damn! The Aztec are getting stronger and stronger. They pose a threat that has to be dealt with.

Are there any wars going on that might have an effect on our trades?
(@work and can't check myself)

If there are wars going on they might cause some of the possible trades to be cancelled.
Only if one needs allies and is ready to throw in a few techs to get them.
But then again I don't think I've ever seen/heard AI to bribe allies during war. Only at the beginnig of one.

Did any of this make any sence?

	14-10-2002 19:42									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes lets trade for them. People are so woried about money for the military, etc., but what kind of military are we going to have without the technology? Gunpowder is a must, and then we will be able to see where saltpeter is. If there is some in our territory, we can then upgrade our units very well. If there is none in our territory, we may be able to trade with other civs for it before it is all gone (traded to other civs).

	14-10-2002 21:10									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Yes lets trade for them. People are so woried about money for the military, etc., but what kind of military are we going to have without the technology? Gunpowder is a must, and then we will be able to see where saltpeter is. If there is some in our territory, we can then upgrade our units very well. If there is none in our territory, we may be able to trade with other civs for it before it is all gone (traded to other civs).

And who knows, we just might have a surplus that we can sell to one of the other Civs (Banana willing, for some more Technology). This will also give us the opportunity to evaluate if the other Civs do have Saltpeter and what kind of threat they may pose to us (or conversely, we to them).

E_T

	14-10-2002 22:56									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I can understand Gunpowder, but ????Banking???? Come on Guys, you cannot utilize Banking until you have built Marketplaces. The last time I looked, they were in short supply.

I guess you have just spent too much time in the jungle and are suffering from the "rabid republicanism" strain of yellow fever.

Just what do we propose to do with Uber Isle w/o Astronomy? Realistically all it can build is workers to hold down it's pop growth. It is nice that AGC is building a harbor, but it will be useless till we get Astronomy.

It's not like we were researching the Printing Press. Oops! erase, correct, We are researching Pringing Press!!

And if anyone suggests that "The Banana knows" justifies this, I will counter propose that they eat one (banana that is)

	14-10-2002 23:25									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Banking is a prerequisite for Democracy.

	14-10-2002 23:30									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My thoughts:

We've been trying to find a way to get Gunpower and other techs without sinking our economy into ruin for 20 turns. This has been out best chance yet for three reasons:

1) We're going to tie this tech deal to map sales to reduce cost.

2) We're going to tie this tech deal to dye trade to reduce cost.

3) We've found a buyer with Gunpowder who wants to trade for either Banking or Astronomy.

Personally, I wanted to get Astronomy, but we discovered that Banking is more valued in the trade exchange, lessening the cost for Gunpowder even more.

Also Banking + Printing Press leads us directly to Democracy, which is where our technology is headed.

In the end, I went with Banking because we're extremely tight in the budget despite our current windfall. I'm doing everything I can do to reduce costs so that other projects can be completed by the CP and SMC.

Also, we plan to trade these techs should the opportunity present itself to hopefully get Astronomy. Once we learn Printing Press we will definately try to trade it for Astronomy, if we don't already have it by then.

--Togas

	14-10-2002 23:33									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by roadcage I can understand Gunpowder, but ????Banking???? Come on Guys, you cannot utilize Banking until you have built Marketplaces. The last time I looked, they were in short supply.

As we are not in a position to increase our Research rate and be able to have the needed Income for Force Upgrades, Improvement rushes & purchasing Luxuries and or Technologies, The FAM doesn't want to greatly cripple our economy at such a critical stage in our overall developement. Banking is 80 Lytons cheaper and we will be able to built some Banks in our cities soon. We currently are building 10 Marketplaces with more in the Queue. A few of these cities are ready for the "next level" of developement, i.e. Banks & Universities (we have 1 University in the build queue now). So anything that can increase our cash flow can also allow us to change our Research rates.

Also, with Banking, if one other the Civs get Astronomy without Banking (The Aztecs look good) we'll have something to trade them for it.

quote: I guess you have just spent too much time in the jungle and are suffering from the "rabid republicanism" strain of yellow fever. Just what do we propose to do with Uber Isle w/o Astronomy? Realistically all it can build is workers to hold down it's pop growth. It is nice that AGC is building a harbor, but it will be useless till we get Astronomy.

The Harbor will still take some time to build (18 turns at the current rate). As CP, my plan for Uber is to store Population with Specialist and also create the workers to get the infrastructure set into place on the Island. Once Astronomy comes into play, I can immeadately, change the WorkForce into full production. We can also start shipping any excess workers back to the mainland to help with the work requirements that are there.

quote: It's not like we were researching the Printing Press. Oops! erase, correct, We are researching Pringing Press!! And if anyone suggests that "The Banana knows" justifies this, I will counter propose that they eat one (banana that is)

Such disrespect to our Great One! But under our new Republic, I suppose you have that right.

E_T

	15-10-2002 01:02									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Banking is important, trust me, and is one of the reasons I have decided what I have decided... in regards to financing this plan, see my "Budget Decree 580 A.D."

	15-10-2002 03:41									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Nice plan E_T, this will get us the long waited for breakthrough, Gunpoweder will allow us to see if there are new world orders, resuulting from some monopoly of satlpeter (although unlikely).
But i'm afraid that in the long run (after printing press, IMO) we would need extra funding for research for these kind of breakthroughs.

	15-10-2002 04:13									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Remember that we also need to be the first to discover the lost civs. I think that opportunity is slipping through our fingers the longer it takes...