14-10-2002 21:57									#1
	My Favorite Mods Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm not an expert modder, by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought I'd share a few mods that I made recently that seemed to make the game more interesting.

Most of this has to do with the upgrade path of my military units, since I got tired of seeing ancient units around in modern eras, and I hate to just waste them (I know PTW addresses this somewhat).

First, I made swordsmen upgradeable to knights. This seemed like a logical enough progression. I then made cavalry upgradeable to tanks (since most cavalry units went this route in actual history anyway, I didn't think it too much of a stretch). This way, the hordes of horsemen-knights-cavalry that I amass in the earlier stages of the game don't become totally obsolete with the invention of motorized transportation.

The next mod is a bit more radical, and a lot of people may not go for it; but I like it becuase it encourages me to use some units that I otherwise ignore. First, i made archers amphibious. I figured an amphibious ancient era unit makes those galleys a bit more threatening. I applied the same mod to longbowman, and I gave them an extra movement point. Why? Because otherwise, if I have iron, I will hardly use them, as I've usually got the knights by then. This way, they can keep up, AND they have the amphibious trait going for them, even though they're not quite as powerful as knights.

Naturally, I make them upgradeable to marines, and I give the marines the added movement point, too. Just to keep my elite troops up to speed, I make them upgradeable to paratroopers. I give the paratroopers similar offensive capability to the marines, and add the extra movement and amphibious ability.

This, in my opinion, more closely mimics the Airborne and other special forces units of modern armies - crack commandos that are highly mobile and versatile - although they're not a match for well-fortified infantry or an onslaught of tanks. And this way, I actually have a use for paratroopers (which, previously, I have never had much reason to deploy).

Now, if I could only find a way to make helicopters more useful...

	14-10-2002 23:16									#2
	Re: My Favorite Mods Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by FNBrown First, I made swordsmen upgradeable to knights. This seemed like a logical enough progression. I then made cavalry upgradeable to tanks (since most cavalry units went this route in actual history anyway, I didn't think it too much of a stretch).

Doesn't this create a direct upgrade path from Warriors to Modern Armour? I suppose if you're happy with it then it doesn't matter, but isn't this a little over-powering? Since the AI doesn't always upgrade units in the most intelligent way this will probably give the human player a big advantage.

	15-10-2002 00:08									#3
	Re: Re: My Favorite Mods Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Doesn't this create a direct upgrade path from Warriors to Modern Armour? I suppose if you're happy with it then it doesn't matter, but isn't this a little over-powering? Since the AI doesn't always upgrade units in the most intelligent way this will probably give the human player a big advantage.

True - although I have seen the AI upgrade more often in 1.29f than previously (was at war with France.. advancing on several cities when suddenly all their rifles became infantry).

Basically, I'm just tired of having to disband swordsmen after I reach the industrial age.

	15-10-2002 03:59									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think this makes the game way to easy. Cavalry to tanks doesnt make sense to me, the untits are too completely different .

Although I do like the swordsmen to knights idea.

	15-10-2002 04:40									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

dp

	15-10-2002 04:42									#6
	Support Apolyton

Where do you think the term "Armored Cav" comes from? The U.S. Army deliberately "upgraded" several of its 19th century cavalry units to tanks in the early twentieth century.

In the game, it seems like a natural progression to me. Cavalry are the most powerful offensive unit you can build until tanks become available - so why not upgrade your best offense to the unit that makes it obsolete?

	15-10-2002 04:59									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I did the same thing in my games. The armies of the world did exchange their horse cavalry for armored cavalry. It's not the unit, its the unit's job on the battlefield.

	15-10-2002 06:23									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by: Destroyer Cavalry to tanks doesnt make sense to me

Did you ever hear of a man named Patton?

	15-10-2002 06:52									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Did you ever hear of a man named Patton?

Uh... nope.

	15-10-2002 09:09									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by FNBrown Where do you think the term "Armored Cav" comes from? The U.S. Army deliberately "upgraded" several of its 19th century cavalry units to tanks in the early twentieth century. In the game, it seems like a natural progression to me. Cavalry are the most powerful offensive unit you can build until tanks become available - so why not upgrade your best offense to the unit that makes it obsolete?

One thing I can think of is if that was in the game, it could be unbalancing. You would have no hesitation to keep making calv if they can be upgrade to tanks. Now you can come to a point where you have to think if you want to hold off in order to have tanks instead or even inf for MI, instead of a bunch of calv that will not be all that useful when the world is full of MI/MA units.

	15-10-2002 09:20									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think that is too unbalanced. Because calvary is cheaper then tanks. You can get tanks for cheaper even if you have no intention of using the calvary except for upgrading.

	17-10-2002 04:28									#12
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by FNBrown Where do you think the term "Armored Cav" comes from? The U.S. Army deliberately "upgraded" several of its 19th century cavalry units to tanks in the early twentieth century. In the game, it seems like a natural progression to me. Cavalry are the most powerful offensive unit you can build until tanks become available - so why not upgrade your best offense to the unit that makes it obsolete?

Im talking about from a technological pint of view. Its hardly an upgrade, mor eof a replacement. I think it makes more sense to have to build tanks from scratch. It aint just a case of bunging a couple of wheels on a horse with a bigger gun.

	17-10-2002 21:41									#13
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Destroyer Im talking about from a technological pint of view. Its hardly an upgrade, mor eof a replacement. I think it makes more sense to have to build tanks from scratch. It aint just a case of bunging a couple of wheels on a horse with a bigger gun.

It's all a matter of perspective. The Cavalry I set my city to "create" isn't just one guy on a horse - in my mind, it's a company of men trained with horses and rifles to operate as a fast and lethal offensive military unit.

In actual history, the same men that led and served in mounted cavalry units were chosen to lead and serve in armored cavalry units for two reasons: One, the tank made horses and rifles obsolete, and, two, the men in those units already had a thorough understanding of the mission that would be required of an armored cavalry unit. It was a natural progression then, and I think the same applies in the game.

It's not just "putting wheels and a bigger gun on a horse," it's taking the men who lead and serve in fast and powerful offensive military unit and giving them better tools for the job. You don't fire (disband) the men in the cavalry and then recruit and train all new men to drive tanks - you "upgrade" their equipment and train them to use it (hence, the financial cost, and the one-turn downtime for the unit during upgrade).

	21-10-2002 03:40									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

I s'pose we will have to agree to disagree on this one

	21-10-2002 03:59									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

FNBrown, even so you still needed to make the tank. That took time and resources, not just some cash.

	21-10-2002 04:09									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

But the game does allow to upgrade Infantry to Mech. Infantry, which I find odd since you can't cavalry-->armor. Please explain why they allow one and not the other, other than to save the aggravation of disbanding hundreds of infantry if your on a larger map

	22-10-2002 00:16									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by CiverDan But the game does allow to upgrade Infantry to Mech. Infantry, which I find odd since you can't cavalry-->armor. Please explain why they allow one and not the other, other than to save the aggravation of disbanding hundreds of infantry if your on a larger map

They are Defensive units. Primary purpose is to defend. If you took a force of MI and attacked with them, you would suffer much higher losses than if you used MA.

Mss