20-10-2002 20:42									#31
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quote: would you rather have 10,000 bickering and dischordant voices all trying to be right, or 1 single harmonious voice that calms and pacifies untold millions?

I'd rather have the ten thousand discordant voices all trying to be right. Here's why.

A society encompasses greatness to the extent it allows for differeing thoughts, ideas, and ideals to be held by its populace. A population of one mind is weak -- it cannot adapt, cannot imagine other possibilities, cannot work to achieve more than one goal at one time. A population of diverse and multitudinous ieals can work for a thousand goals at one time, and succeed in some of them. Even if only one percent succeed, that's ten times what a "united" society of one mind could accomplish -- and those are conservative estimates.

Just my own thoughts on the matter.

	21-10-2002 05:21									#32
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Alright, I give. :

for now!

	21-10-2002 11:58									#33
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Adam: Exactly.

	21-10-2002 23:06									#34
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(note: in reality, I am completely for democracy and capitalism; however, for roleplaying purposes I am defending CSF's position)

quote: I'd rather have the ten thousand discordant voices all trying to be right.

You have to rembmer, we are not on earth anymore, where debating and infighting was a luxury awiable to us becasue we had no outside threats. The Planet we now live on is much more harsh and unforgiving. If we argue and bicker over who is right and wrong, we will be blind to outside dangers. The Hive or Belivers, with their single voices, will be able to combine their strengths and crush us. I do not advocate the absencse of free thought; rather, we influence on the masses on the most important issues, including the fighting of a war. Think of what a disaster it would be if we had another Vietnam, and many citzens were anti-war. While the old US was not directly threatened by not going to war, we will be if we find yang or miriam. In these situations, it will help ensure the surivial of democracy if everyone supports the protection of it.

	21-10-2002 23:23									#35
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Is your concern military safety?

If so, there are ways to ensure it (such as Command Centers and Power values) without sacrificing freedom of thought and human dignity.

	21-10-2002 23:51									#36
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no, its not just millitary, its all specrtums of society. For example, people may disagree with our social values and create drone riots, leading to the loss of our edge over the other factions. Rembmer, our parmount goal at this point is to be stronger than all other groups. Once we have vanquieshed, cornered, become supreme leader, or ideas concerning the snetience of planet take root, I do not support thought control as no one will be able to hurt us (much like the US in the final centuries). However, until that time we must do whatever we can to maintin our advantage.

	21-10-2002 23:55									#37
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quote: The empires of the furutre are are the empires of the mind - Winston Churchill

This quote says it all. What is an empire but agroup of people with common ideas led by a leader. Therefore, a future empire is a goup of common minds under a common leader. This is what Thought Control is. Don't listen to me, listen to one of the greatestr avoactes of democracy in the 20th century has to say.

	22-10-2002 08:19									#38
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I'd side w/you dmm1285, but I gave in....:sad:

For now....

	22-10-2002 14:06									#39
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quote: You have to rembmer, we are not on earth anymore, where debating and infighting was a luxury awiable to us becasue we had no outside threats. The Planet we now live on is much more harsh and unforgiving. If we argue and bicker over who is right and wrong, we will be blind to outside dangers. The Hive or Belivers, with their single voices, will be able to combine their strengths and crush us. I do not advocate the absencse of free thought; rather, we influence on the masses on the most important issues, including the fighting of a war. Think of what a disaster it would be if we had another Vietnam, and many citzens were anti-war. While the old US was not directly threatened by not going to war, we will be if we find yang or miriam. In these situations, it will help ensure the surivial of democracy if everyone supports the protection of it.

This reminds me of that old quote about not becoming what you fight. The US made that mistake in the Cold War and the latter stages of the Oil Wars. We must not repeat it.

For that matter, 10 000 discordant voices all trying to be right is better than 1 single voice, as it's much more likely that some of them will be right.

quote: no, its not just millitary, its all specrtums of society. For example, people may disagree with our social values and create drone riots, leading to the loss of our edge over the other factions. Rembmer, our parmount goal at this point is to be stronger than all other groups. Once we have vanquieshed, cornered, become supreme leader, or ideas concerning the snetience of planet take root, I do not support thought control as no one will be able to hurt us (much like the US in the final centuries). However, until that time we must do whatever we can to maintin our advantage.

There are ways other than Thought Control to maintain our edge. For one thing, by the time it's even a possibility, it shouldn't be necessary, by that logic.

quote: This quote says it all. What is an empire but agroup of people with common ideas led by a leader. Therefore, a future empire is a goup of common minds under a common leader. This is what Thought Control is. Don't listen to me, listen to one of the greatestr avoactes of democracy in the 20th century has to say.

Winston Churchill, an advocate of democracy? He stood up for 'Democracy' in the sense of the British Empire being run by the British constituional monarchy as they saw fit. In any case, we ARE a group of people with similar ideals - ideals that, unfortunately, you do not seem to share. There is no place for Thought Control in a democratic and free society.