16-10-2002 00:33									#1
	Chiron Security Force Put an end to popups!

Well, I was going to join a party, but they all seem to have been dispandes except for the CCCP, and I dont agree with some of their ideas, so I present to you:
The Chriron Security Fore (CSF)

Q: Why join any party at all?
A: Some say parties serve no purpose, but I strongly disagree. By joining a party that shares your ideals, your votes will become stronger in the elections as a faction who votes for (mostly) the same people has a larger chancew of getting its choices elected. Parties also encourage participation from lukers and newbies(like myself) as they add more of a roplelaying elemtn to the demo game, particualrly to people with no government position. Fianlly, when electing people to office from a party, you know what their ideals are, making for easy voting.

Q: What is your expericne with Aplaha Centauri and Alien Crossfire
A: I've owned and played both games since they have came out (I even bought virtual pc, a PC emulator for the Mac, to play this game orignally). I have beat the game with almost every faction on transcend and have a very good grasp of the game's tech tree and concepts; anything I dont know I'll be more than happy to learn about.

Q: Will the CSF ever get disbanded?
A: Probablly not. If it turns out that no one elase wishes to join and I'm the only member, I dont mind as people will at least know my in-game poltics. So in short, no.

Q: Enough of the background! What's the CSF all about?!?
We are a pro-millatirsitc, anti-wealth party in the Apolyton government.
We support democracy for governemtn at all points in the game.
The CSF prefers planned economy over FM or green, especially in the beginning of the game to build up our bases. Any base that has a child's chreche will grow by one person every turn if the bas produces >=2 nutrients, we consider this a huge adavantage, and could end up leading to more research over FM in the end. If it is possible to build the Cloning Vats, we definently supoprt a green economey. So, we are anti-FM, but not strongly so.
The CSF is strongly against the wealth social choice. Wealth only creates a weak and complacent army and poplulation without and tangible benefits. We are pro both power and knowlege, depending on the situation. For example, if we are not at war, a relationship with Zakarov would be benfiecial, and the +2 rearch signifiganly lowers the turns of tech research, we are pro-knowlege. However, if we are at war, or build the Cloning Vats(removes negatives of power), the CSF is pro-power.
The CSF is pro thought control, particullary if we are in contol of the Cloning Vats (removes negative support costs). We are not againt using the Eudadomic society choice to improve research, cash flow, and mineral production, but we do not avoacte using it during war time. We are not against using cyernetic in a war againt the gains, ro a faction that has massed a large amount of mind worms.

Q: What is the CSF's stance towards atrocities?
A: We are against atrocities as they do not effectively hurt the enemy's millitary strength, or make it impossible to tkae bases (planet busters). However, we are not agaist nerve stapling, and not agaisnt building punishment speheres if the need arises.

Please post any other questions here. Like I said before, I think it was mistkae to disband all of the parites as they make the game interesting, and I'm soing the best to rectify it.

	16-10-2002 00:37									#2
	Re: Chiron Security Force Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Down with party politic as it only serves to put ONE specific candidate up no matter how qualified and eventually serves to ruin the game!!!

Down with the parties!

	16-10-2002 00:45									#3
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If you are pro Thought Control, then you'll be having it easy as a party, I mean, everyone will think you are the best party in any case. If you're party won't Control the Thoughts, then, you won't even know you ever had a party.

quote: but they all seem to have been dispandes except for the CCCP

* Kassiopeia coughs in the role of the acting leader of Liberal Social Democrats (whose party charter is quite opposite to yours)

We have turned more into an ideological then a political movement, though, mainly because we have really no candidates to any posts.

	16-10-2002 00:54									#4
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Well the Save the Environment Party (STEP) is also still in existence. But from reading your manifesto, I don't feel we've a lot in common except an understanding that political parties make the game interesting.

	16-10-2002 00:54									#5
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quote: Originally posted by dmm1285 Q: Why join any party at all? A:By joining a party that shares your ideals, your votes will become stronger in the elections as a faction who votes for (mostly) the same people has a larger chancew of getting its choices elected.

the old P4 was critisized in election I for voting only for its own members

quote: Originally posted by dmm1285 Please post any other questions here. Like I said before, I think it was mistkae to disband all of the parites as they make the game interesting, and I'm soing the best to rectify it.

parties were the worst thing to happen to this game. they made it like the C3DG, and promoted bickering. not only that, but they caused many hard feelings towards other people. i'm not sad to see parties go at all.
i don't think you'll get much response here. there were already 2 warmongering parties, both of which disbanded. 1, because it only ever got 2 members, and the other, because they were inactive. everyone here is already either in a party, hates parties, or just chooses not to be in a party.

parties suck
this party sucks
war distracts us from research
the end

	16-10-2002 01:03									#6
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Ignore him (TKG) that's just his standard friendly greeting. Does that to all the new citizens, Kind of an initation test. Thinks he's the beelines knees.

	16-10-2002 01:07									#7
	Remove this text

what?? who else have i done that to?

	16-10-2002 01:14									#8
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Sorry for not aknowleging any parties. As for parties sucking, I'm not saying for you to join or anything. Hell, I dont care if I reamin the only member of the party, Ill try my best for the CDF to have a positive influence on the Apolyton governemt. Aslo, I think the work you are lookin for is debating, not bickering. I'm interested in debating the various social issues with other parties in a calm peaceful way (actually, I dont usually play thought control myself, I aply Eudomia. However, it is usually maligned for no reason, so I decdied to give it a chance). Therefore, good luck to all other parties, and parties rule!

	16-10-2002 01:19									#9
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quote: Originally posted by dmm1285 Aslo, I think the work you are lookin for is debating, not bickering

true that it may have started as debating, it was definitely bickering

*cough*ARCHAIC*cough*
*cough*LUCKY*cough*
*cough*_{to some extent}PANDEMONIAK*cough*



i'm not saying you shouldn't start a party (well, maybe i am ) but i just don't think you'll find it as useful as you think

	16-10-2002 01:31									#10
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I look forward to debating these issues!

	16-10-2002 01:39									#11
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quote: However, we are not agaist nerve stapling, and not agaisnt building punishment speheres if the need arises. [...] The CSF is pro thought control. [...]

I can see the CCCP has found another ennemy...

	16-10-2002 07:16									#12
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TKG: You're right case of mistaken identity. Whoops.

I'll get you something for that cough . A hot triple black stuff OK

dmm1285 : if you have a couple of spare well armed 'debating type' chappies available we need them to patrol the highways and by-ways of our factions empire.

You would not believe the level of xenobrew charged mayhem being caused, citizens old and new disappearing everyday. But the evidence begins to mount.

	16-10-2002 12:35									#13
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quote: I dont usually play thought control myself, I aply Eudomia. However, it is usually maligned for no reason

NO REASON!? Though Control is the ultimate extension and the logical conclusion point of despotism. It totally denies freedom of thought to citizens, reducing them to nothing more than bags of chemicals who produce and consume resources. Do you really want to see the UN - the only faction on Planet to hold freedom as it's foremost goal - dragged down to the level of the Hive?

	16-10-2002 17:17									#14
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Evidently he does. Nonetheless, best of luck to him. Even a freedom-of-economy party didn't last long in this environment.

	16-10-2002 20:21									#15
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Once the issue comes up, I'm sure a lot of free marketeers will come forward and that we will prevail !

	16-10-2002 20:24									#16
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And if you were referring to the P4 and not the CP, P4 (or at least I in my original manifest) had economic views which would be considered moderately left on Old early 21th century Earth, but which can't be accurately represented due to the black&white SE system we have.

* Maniac crawls back into his a-party-al cocoon...

	17-10-2002 03:27									#17
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quote: Originally posted by TKG true that it may have started as debating, it was definitely bickering *cough*ARCHAIC*cough* *cough*LUCKY*cough* *cough*to some extentPANDEMONIAK*cough* i'm not saying you shouldn't start a party (well, maybe i am ) but i just don't think you'll find it as useful as you think

NGOs definitely seem to promote more reason and more substantive discussion with less pure contradiction and sniping. Pure contradiction and sniping are less enjoyable for role-play than one tends to think in the heat of the moment at the keyboard. The current climate makes NGOs and parties more indistinguishable than ever, of course.

	17-10-2002 03:32									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak I can see the CCCP has found another ennemy...

Y'know, if we were to boil it down to just the issues the CSF is ant-CCCP on just the thought control. Of course the old P4 differed from the CCCP only on the use of free market economics. Those shouting matches really were more about individuals than parties, ultimately.

	17-10-2002 04:50									#19
	Put an end to popups!

Lucky22:

quote: NGOs definitely seem to promote more reason and more substantive discussion with less pure contradiction and sniping. Pure contradiction and sniping are less enjoyable for role-play than one tends to think in the heat of the moment at the keyboard. The current climate makes NGOs and parties more indistinguishable than ever, of course.

A striking and provocative comment.

	17-10-2002 07:11									#20
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I think the Pro-Hive Movement (PHM) and the Chiron Security Force will get along nicely.

[by the way, the Pro-Hive movement is NOT a party!]

	17-10-2002 12:55									#21
	Remove this text

quote: We are not againt using the Eudadomic society choice to improve research, cash flow, and mineral production, but we do not avoacte using it during war time.

Lucky, *that* shocked me.
Anyone who says the future goal of the UN Peacekeepers is not the happiness of people and the peacekeeping is -if not the ennemy of the CCCP- at least my ennemy.

	17-10-2002 13:24									#22
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus NO REASON!? Though Control is the ultimate extension and the logical conclusion point of despotism. It totally denies freedom of thought to citizens, reducing them to nothing more than bags of chemicals who produce and consume resources. Do you really want to see the UN - the only faction on Planet to hold freedom as it's foremost goal - dragged down to the level of the Hive?

What? by not implementing Thought Control, we are robbing the citizens of the very security and democracy that the UN Charter fights for!

Democracy and Thought Control will go hand in hand and with a Planned Economy, not only will we ensure fellow Peacekeepers a free life, but we will also guarantee the security and fruitfulness our society can afford them.

	17-10-2002 14:30									#23
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quote: What? by not implementing Thought Control, we are robbing the citizens of the very security and democracy that the UN Charter fights for!

By implementing Though Control, we are denying our citizens the fundamental right to think and believe as they wish.

quote: Democracy and Thought Control will go hand in hand and with a Planned Economy, not only will we ensure fellow Peacekeepers a free life, but we will also guarantee the security and fruitfulness our society can afford them.

Please explain how robbing people of their freedom of thought allows the existence of democracy and freedom.

	17-10-2002 14:53									#24
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We are not "robbing" our citizens the freedom of thought, but rather expanding their thought processes through neurochemical 'encouragement'.

The implementation of Thought Control will allow everyone to see how strong one single idea backed up by hundreds of minds and bodies can be. An untold amount of resources, effort, and energy is wasted by constant bickering and arguing. But with Thought Control in place, everything will be unified into one single drive.

This unification of thoughts with the implementation of Thought Control will give the citizens more freedom to see past personal stereotypes and beliefs and transcend to 'group awareness'!

T.C. and Democracy go hand in hand.

	17-10-2002 15:03									#25
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Freedom is arbitrary and ethereal.

	17-10-2002 15:37									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: We are not "robbing" our citizens the freedom of thought, but rather expanding their thought processes through neurochemical 'encouragement'.

By it's very nature, TC denies people the freedom to think for themselves, even if they do not notice it themselves.

quote: The implementation of Thought Control will allow everyone to see how strong one single idea backed up by hundreds of minds and bodies can be. An untold amount of resources, effort, and energy is wasted by constant bickering and arguing. But with Thought Control in place, everything will be unified into one single drive.

Now where have we heard this before? This takes us right back to the good old days of Stalin, Hitler and Mao.

quote: This unification of thoughts with the implementation of Thought Control will give the citizens more freedom to see past personal stereotypes and beliefs and transcend to 'group awareness'!

A group is an artificial and arbitary entity; it cannot think for itself or be aware.

quote: T.C. and Democracy go hand in hand.

T.C. reverses democracy; the government does not hold power because people support it, but rather, people support the government because it is in power.

quote: Freedom is arbitrary and ethereal.

Ethereal, yes. Arbitary, no. And simply because it is not something tangible does not mean it is not real, nor that it is not precious.

	17-10-2002 20:31									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak Anyone who says the future goal of the UN Peacekeepers is not the happiness of people and the peacekeeping is -if not the ennemy of the CCCP- at least my ennemy.

I'm with you here, actually, Pan. The Eudaimonia policy comment got right by me. I'm going to go with "opponent", just because of my previous involvements and conflicts. In the end our victory can only be in the implementation of humanist policy over the preferences of our new cabal of consciousless thugs, though. In this case, preventing the use of nerve stapling, thought control and punishment spheres.

If one's existential choice is a machine-like ethic that is one thing, denial of that choice for the individual moral consciousness is as unacceptable as land-lordery, certainly.

	19-10-2002 11:05									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ah,

The 'Group' is the single most powerful entity on Planet right now. The mass of unsatisfied Peacekeepers band together to collect their scattered and miniscule power and coalesce it into one single universal strength. The group is not "artificial", it merely transcends that which we cannot see or hear or feel.

quote: Now where have we heard this before? This takes us right back to the good old days of Stalin, Hitler and Mao.

True, those were evil and misdirected individuals....but would you rather have 10,000 bickering and dischordant voices all trying to be right, or 1 single harmonious voice that calms and pacifies untold millions?

quote: T.C. reverses democracy; the government does not hold power because people support it, but rather, people support the government because it is in power.

The government is formed "by the people". Elected officials are appointed by the people and these elected officials steer the populace with Thought Control. Think of TC as a tool that one would use to tweak society so that it (society) may reach its true potential. Democracy uses TC whether people like it or not. In the 2000's, a crude form of Thought Control was in place.....it was called "Mass Media".

	19-10-2002 11:17									#30
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quote: The 'Group' is the single most powerful entity on Planet right now. The mass of unsatisfied Peacekeepers band together to collect their scattered and miniscule power and coalesce it into one single universal strength. The group is not "artificial", it merely transcends that which we cannot see or hear or feel.

A group cannot think for itself, nor does it have any seperate existance. It exists solely as a collection of individuals, nothing more.

quote: True, those were evil and misdirected individuals....but would you rather have 10,000 bickering and dischordand voices all trying to be right, or 1 single harmonious voice that calms and pacifies untold millions?

That would depend on whether the 1 voice actually was right. And there would be no way to ensure that.

quote: The government is formed "by the people". Elected officials are appointed by the people and these elected officials steer the populace with Thought Control.

*SIGH* A democracy becomes entirely nonfunctional when TC is implemented, because it means the government controls the people, not the other way around.

quote: Think of TC as a tool that one would use to tweak society so that it (society) may reach its true potential.

But who decides what the 'true potential' of society really is? Hitler thought it would be reached by racial purification and extermination. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot though they could reach it by 'weeding out the class enemy'. In the case of TC, it is highly likely that whoever wields it will make similar errors... and there will be no way imaginable to halt and repair the damage, short of an outside invasion.

EDIT: that was supposed to be 'likely'.

quote: Democracy uses TC whether people like it or not. In the 2000's, a crude form of Thought Control was in place.....it was called "Mass Media".

Do we have to like it? We're here to escape the mistakes of Earth, not to repeat them on a larger scale.