16-10-2002 02:59									#1
	Does it make sence to rush build? Increase Your PM Length

Remember, it cost 4x shield cost to rush build Will we really save money that way. It's 2x shields to upgrade units, that's a bit more plausible. It does make sence to rush build to quell runaway waste - marketplaces for WLKD or courthouses if no WLKD is possible, otherwise its probably cheaper to build them normally - even if we need to turn workers into tax collecters. What happens to our fine tuning if a luxury contract gets too expensive, or we're dragged into a war. Certainly when we get Military Tradition we'll want to play with our horses, these are all good uses of the luxury slider. once we build our city improvements, all there will be left will be military, so then our rushing only speeds the problem of war weariness.

Last edited by realpolitic on 16-10-2002 at 04:24

	16-10-2002 05:30									#2
	Got spare money?

As CP, I plan to try to do what I call, Throughput rushes. One of the reasons why is because we are at an 125% deficit (they build at 80% of our cost) compaired to the production capacity of the other Civs. The throughput rushes will help decrease this deficit to an acceptible level. The throughput rushed will not be done on any "big ticket items" (i.e. Universities, Banks, Factories).

An example:
City A produces 4 Sheilds per turn. This city can build 1 WC (20 Sheilds each) in 5 turns, thereby in 20 turns, it can build 4 WC's. If, on turn 3 of each build (2 turns left), it is rushed for 32 Lytons, it will be built in 4 turns, instead of 5. if this is done on all of the WC's that the city builds, it can produce 5 WC's in the 20 turns, instead of 4.

This increases the overall throughput of the city. Now expand that by 40 cities. Yes, it can get expencive and there are other things to spend our funds on, but it helps us catch up. Also, keep in mind that each city is building differnt things, with different TOC's (time of completions). That means the the overall expence is spead out over a longer period of time.

Sometimes, you have a production sheild offset, where say a city produces 9 sheilds per turn. Your building a 100 sheild item, it will take 12 turns to build (total 108 sheilds and the last turn waste 8 sheilds). On two turns left, it has 10 sheilds left to build, so rushing would cost 40 and you wouldn't waste those sheilds.

E_T

	16-10-2002 05:33									#3
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Good explanation ET

	16-10-2002 05:38									#4
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I supported a Temple rush in San Cortes today so the Aztec cities will flip faster and we need to get a connected border back.

A settler will probably be rushed Friday to seal up Uber under our control.

	16-10-2002 07:32									#5
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Rushing is very plausable when you consider how long it takes to build something. If we just waited around to build something, then the other civs would be far a head of us as they are rushing also.

	16-10-2002 20:56									#6
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In general, the lower the net shields are in the city, the more sense it makes to rush build.

Just always produce at least 1 shield first, because otherwise it's 2X as expensive.

What's a big ticket item that shouldn't be upgraded now evenually becomes an item that should be rushed in cities that don't have them yet.

Right now the following civic improvement items are extra important to rush:

1. Temple in any city without it.

2. Aquaducts in size 6 cities without fresh water.

3. Court Houses in size 3+ cities with a waste problem. (But not so severe as it wouldn't do any good.)

4. Market Places in size 5+ cities.

5. Catherdrials near the border and in addition in size 9+ cities.

6. Harbor in certain cities where the ocean is the only way it can get the food to grow.

In about 10 turns, I'll also add:

Libaries in size 6+ cities or near the border.

Banks in size 10+ cities/ University's in size 12 cities will probably reach this status sometime during term 6. (Banks first)

Hospitals gets this status in size 12 cities the moment they are allowed to be built.

Factories also reach this status within 30 turns of discovering Industriatization in size 14+ cities.

	16-10-2002 21:58									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Factories are different. They make everything faster, and it is not so much the size of the city that should govern their use, as the shields the city produces. A size 10 city with only 2 shields should not waste its time on a factory. A size 6 city with 15 shields should. It is all relative. each situation is different, and that must be taken into account.

	16-10-2002 23:45									#8
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We are working on courthouses in the outlying provences, but they will be expencive to rush. I plan schedualing rushes on these cities when they have reached at least 10% completion (at least 280 Lytons each). This will allow me to get the funding for these rushes and have some other monies for rushes in other cities. This will help some of the waste/corruption in those cities and help increase overall production & trade.

THe cities that are currently limited to size six (no Aquaducts) will work on the lesser improvements first (Library, Marketplace & Cathedrals) before they will be allowed to grow. I will be taking advantage of food surplusses to produce workers, while the city is working towards the point of growing. Some of these cities will also produce some Mil Units between Improvements, depending on the overall production capacity. As we have seen the effects of the loss of one of the luxuries that we depend on, this is a good strategy to help reduce the impact of a future loss.

The cities that can currently grow beyond size 6, will be working first on Improvements to help keep them happy. As we are in need of money at the moment, we are working on Marketplaces first in most of these cities. Cathedrals & Libraries will be next, the order depending on the current size of the city & growth rate of the city.

The reasons for this are that we would like to have WLKD in as many of our Cities, especially in the outlying provences to increase overall production while the city is growing. For further information on the reasonings behind this desision, please take a look at the Everything you ever wanted to know about corruption Thread and the User-freindly FAQ that is pointed to in that thread. With both Market & Cathedrals, the cities can grow to size 8 with 4 Luxes, size 9 with 5 Luxes, size 10 with 6 Luxes & size 12 with 7 Luxes and still maintain WLKD.

One more thing to consider about limiting the growth of the smaller cities, is that we will be going to war soon and it's not certain how long the war will last. We will suffer War Weariness effects for every 5 turns that we are at war. Other things might happen at that time and I would like my cities to be prepaired.

E_T

	17-10-2002 01:36									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree that cutting waste through courthouses & WLTKD is important for thoroughput, but let's say a marketplace costs 75 shields to build, it generates no WLTKD, will generate 4 extra gold each turn, and could be slow built in 11 turns. We'd pay 300 gold, generate 40 gold in the time we saved (because rush building requires 1 turn), and we'd get the advantage of starting a new project 10 turns earlier. and that priviledge costs 260 gold.
As for the economics of increasing thoroghput, let's say a civ produces equally many shields and gold, then converts all its gold to shields, with a 4:1 conversion it would have 125% of its normal production, with no money for luxuries, strategic materials, unit costs, or city maintence. even that 125% gives us parity with other civs we have to play smarter - by creating worker factories at our outer cities, developing our innner cities, and then settling workers there.

Last edited by realpolitic on 17-10-2002 at 07:09

	17-10-2002 11:07									#10
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic I agree that cutting waste through courthouses & WLTKD is important for thoroughput, but let's say a marketplace costs 75 shields to build, it generates no WLTKD, will generate 4 extra gold each turn, and could be slow built in 11 turns. We'd pay 300 gold, generate 40 gold in the time we saved (because rush building requires 1 turn), and we'd get the advantage of starting a new project 10 turns earlier. and that priviledge costs 260 gold. As for the economics of increasing thoroghput, let's say a civ produces equally many shields and gold, then converts all its gold to shields, with a 4:1 conversion it would have 125% of its normal production, with no money for luxuries, strategic materials, unit costs, or city maintence. even that 125% gives us parity with other civs we have to play smarter - by creating worker factories at our outer cities, developing our innner cities, and then settling workers there.

In your marketplace example (it's 100 shield, but we'll use your figures): We would not rush after one turn of production (that would be an emergency rush IMHO), but after 9 turns of production. THere would normally be 2 turns until completed at this point. Throughput rushing at this time (at your figures of 75 Sheilds & TOC of 11, then Production is 7 Sheilds per turn) would cost 48 gold (12 sheilds left). Also, at the time of rushing, you can change your WF allocations to increase trade or food for that one turn. Costal cities are great for this, because you can shift your WF to the coast squares & have a large increase in trade for that 1 turn. Conversly, If a city had slow growth, you can again change your WF to maximize food surplusses for that one turn.

I've used worker factories, but they work best where you can build the worker in 1 to 2 turns. But you need to have a Phenominal growth rate to compensate for it. But you also have to interleave your worker builds with something elxe, or your city "falls behind" compaired to it's neighbors. You also have to be able to sacrifice that worker back into the population. We dont have that luxury right now, we have a Lot of jungle to clear. I'd like to see most, if not all, of the jungle cleared by the time we get steam engine so that they can worj on building Railroads.

E_T

	17-10-2002 22:38									#11
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quote: Originally posted by E_T There would normally be 2 turns until completed at this point. Throughput rushing at this time (at your figures of 75 Sheilds & TOC of 11, then Production is 7 Sheilds per turn) would cost 48 gold (12 sheilds left). I've used worker factories, but they work best where you can build the worker in 1 to 2 turns. E_T

So we'd take 1 turn instead of 2 and it would cost 48 gold. Let's say we get 5 gold for using sea squares, and since I assumed 7 shields/turn I'll assume the norm is 10 gold/turn. So our real cost is 38 gold, and for that all production is 1 turn early and we get a WLTKD that raises the corruption threshold 1 turn earlier by 1/4 city.

I use slow cities as worker factories because that's the only thing I can build there fast. If you have 5 1 shield cities its as good as 1 5 shield city. At faster cities, I can build Banks, Cavalry etc
The basic strategy is at: Management by Corruption
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...1135#post611135