02-11-1999 10:30									#31
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Hey Nordicus,

Check your email before you spend much more time testing/altering the files.

Don

	02-11-1999 09:08									#32
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Nordicus & Wes,

The Peace Treaty is not a Peace(stop a war) Treaty, it is a Peace(like Alliance) Treaty. It is just like a No Trespassing Agreement, it lasts x number of rounds and then automatically expires. I have got a lot more offers for a Peace Treaty from neutral to likeing civs. One Civ, the worst one, automatically wants to renew the Treaty with me when it expires. This is what is happening to Wes. As you get more powerful, the offers decrease considerably. Personally I like this although I am not sure the Peace Treaty actually has any kind of benefit. If the length of the Treaty could be increased that would be good.

The terrain improvements vary quite a bit but in general the other Civs seem to build one farm and then go on to road building. Once they get a fair amount of roads, they will pick back up on the farming as long as they have a grassland to farm. The AI doesn't seem to like to improve any other terrain type except water. I think this is a drawback for the AI in the later parts of the game.

The tech trading is considerably better than it was. Again with neutral to likeable Civs. As the turns increase, the tech trading decreases considerably with warlike Civs.

I am just starting to really evaluate the No Trespassing issues in my game. It is better but I haven't thrown everything at it yet to see what happens. Can't wait for that. Let's see how mad they will get. More importantly is what the other Civs reactions will be to my Civ and to the other Civ.

I'll keep you posted as I find out more.
Later,
Don

	02-11-1999 09:14									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hi all, just thought I'd give an idea that happened to pop up while I was playing CTP today..

Is there anyway for the Ai to tell you why they are attacking your civ in the first place? Example I slaved a few people of one guy and then the next turn he attacks me...if I go to the diplomatic screen maybe he should say something like "Your violent slaving makes me angry GRRRRRRR...."

Well, just an idea....

	02-11-1999 10:43									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi, Monkey...

No, that's a really good idea. I wanted generally more specific answers, like you're saying about the reason for the attack and the slaving. In my case, it was grovelling--if I was bootin the ***t outta an AI civ, I want the guy to beg me to stop, depending on what personality type he is (Cleric, SciMany, whatever). I mean, who knows, I just might. That seems a helluva lot more realistic then him calling me names and such when he's down to his last two cities.

Unfortunately, I've only been able so far to change the mundane phrases it says and expand its vocabulary (as well as tone it down a bit). As for specific answers, it looks like that code will have to be added. All it has right now (if you peek in your dip_str and info_str files in the english/gamedata folder) are groups of phrases and adjectives the AI juggles randomly per meeting. But in the next version I'll definitely see about making it less random and adding "reasons" for what it does. But I'll make a note of that one.

What's strange is that the diplomacy is more, or seems more, complex than Civ2 (I'm only going by what I know of it as in Playstation) was, there's just not enough in the string files; meaning that there isn't nearly enough dialogue and diplomacy options (buttons on the screen to press) to bring it all out. It's as if they did the AI stuff, in the aidata folder, first, then the string files in the english/gamedata folder last. There's dozens of reasons why (exactly why), maybe a few hundred why, the AI civ would attack you, depending on which of the 7 (including Barbarian) AI personality types he is, but only a few random quotes he can say. (Take a peek in the default/aidata folder and snoop around, or count how many (fli) files there are...compared to a meager one (dip_str) for the actual dialogue ) It's kinda sad.
But I've been thinking of doing a second file with more specific dialogue in it...but I'll likely start a new thread about it.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion: very good point. And I'm on that once these current tests are done.

Later.

N.

	02-11-1999 11:20									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Don:

I have 8 files done that will lengthen the time inbetween the AI asking for anything. Each AIP(ersonaltiy) type has a different number it follows for offering *whatever.*
The number represents how many turns that go by before it will ask again. I made this number higher for all types, some more than others. But this should normalize the frequency of the AI offering Peace Treaty (about which, BTW, you were right).
I can't recall who...wait, found it. (I was talking to Atahualpa.) I'll quote it:

quote: Yeah, I know. I personally like how in Civ2 you could make (and so could the AI) an offer of Peace Treaty (NOT a Cease Fire, even though in CTP they're basically identical) to another civ, yunno? Like when you first meet them, are not at war, and wish to have a 'something' stating that you'd like to maintain peace with them. Hopefully, with the changes I made, the AI will offer more like these and accept them too (depending on if you're peaceful or warlike). I've tried to change the name of "Cease Fire" anywhere I see it to "Peace Treaty," also, since you can't have a Cease Fire if you're not firing anything to begin with! But it is silly, the AI being so picky, esp. if it's losing--I tried to make the AI be more willing to accept a Peace Treaty, as well as offer one, when it's getting beaten. It's what a sane human player would do, so why not the AI?

So, so far so good. The AI is doing it now, but maybe too often.


As for WAIS (the Wandering AI Syndrome) : I have changed a few things in these two aidata files:
diplomacy_begin
diplmacy_pre_incoming

But I'm going to go back in to see what else may be done, and I'll check the other files.
So, I'm sending you and Wes these eight:

personalitySlaver
personalityCleric
personalitySciFew
personalitySciMany
personalityWarFew
personalityWarMany
personality (and)
personalityDefault

I left the Barbarians only. (For now: there's a few things I'd to change about them too.)

Anyway, off to fix that WAIS.
Later.

	02-11-1999 13:45									#36
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Nordicus,

I can't wait to get the new files. Are you sending something that says what you have changed. It doesn't have to be official like you would send when the mod is ready for distribution. Just a few lines if that is possible. This makes it easier to debug if a problem arises. BTW, thanks for the above info. I did not know the treaty lengths were in those files.

Have you run across anything in your file manipulation that would trigger a message when you are at war? On 2 occasions, while heavily fighting a Civ, I had icons pop up and tell me I was no longer at war with 2 other Civs. Well thats great but I didn't know I was at war with them. Last I knew we were on a peaceful basis and they liked me. I never attacked either of them and they never attacked me. Of course, I have been doing a lot of bad things to the other Civs while testing this diplomacy stuff.

Don

	02-11-1999 14:45									#37
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Don:

Heh...heh...I just tried sending the new files to someone wanting copies, but my server's all mangled and full of wonkiness.
So, I think I attacked Harlan's server prematurely; it might be mine with the bug up its butt.

Anyway, I'm using IE 5 tonight (funny, cuz I was just singing the praises of Netscape to someone earlier...and it (IE) seems to be working beautifully...is that irony?).

So, I have files and will try again in a bit to get them to you guys.
The 8 personality_*whatever* fli files have no read me yet (but all the changes are in there, marked, right after CD's or whoever's outcommented notes...yeah, I'm getting better: this way I don't have spend a whole evening looking back and forth like watching a tennis game between the changed and unchanged files, trying to look line by line for what the ***k it did worng!!!)--Wes will no doubt call this "Nordicus Rule #2"--

quote: Have you run across anything in your file manipulation that would trigger a message when you are at war? On 2 occasions, while heavily fighting a Civ, I had icons pop up and tell me I was no longer at war with 2 other Civs. Well thats great but I didn't know I was at war with them. Last I knew we were on a peaceful basis and they liked me. I never attacked either of them and they never attacked me. Of course, I have been doing a lot of bad things to the other Civs while testing this diplomacy stuff.

Well, we've been a bad boy, haven't we? No, this is good, cuz I wanted to see how they reacted to the human player being a warlike ***hole (no offense--I'm the same way). How many have formed alliances against you?
Doesn't sound familiar. If only there's a way to have a message Declaring War from the AI and an option to do so for the human player. It sure seems like they justed declared war on you, but that can't be. Maybe you so involved in your AI civ butt-kicking that you merely forgot with whom you were at war? Ya think?
If not, keep up to date on that--if you're sure about it, then I'll get into that.

It sounds............I'm just looking at the info_str file now...I haven't looked further, but this would of course contain those messages. Hmmm...I'll take a look at this.

Later.

[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 02, 1999).]

	02-11-1999 19:14									#38
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Hi Guys,

I have been following the thread here and it seems to me that using slic it may be possible to add opptions to the Diplomacy Screen. That may also be what is required to make all those out-commented Activision things work in the different Diplomacy files. Maybe what is lacking is a button or whatever that can be used to use those different options when activated. Just a thought.

Timothy Pintello

P.S. Nordicus and Wes, I hope to be able to do some testing on those files ya'll sent me tonight.

	02-11-1999 23:47									#39
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Pintello & Guys,

I thought about this last night after I posted my last message. From what I know, only SLIC will do what I mentioned. It could also do a few other useful things I thought about, especially if some code was 'borrowed' from PowerSLIC. It kind of irked me because 2 turns ago I had an Alliance with one Civ and a big ol happy face with the other. (It must of been those late-night secret negotiations between all the other Civs. )

Any way, back to the point. While I want to see this, I hesitate for a couple of reasons. 1) I don't know SLIC. 2) SLIC will make it very hard to incorporate the Mod into CTP. If I understand this right, the new file would have to be merged with an old one, instead of just overwriting the old one.

Just thinking out loud but if anybody knows anything about this I would appreciate the input.

Don

	03-11-1999 02:24									#40
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Don, Timothy, guys...

Yeah, I emailed you roughly about this. I know Slic a little, but like I said, not enough for something like that. If it's in the file, I use logical deduction to figure out how to create a block of code, I don't have extensive knowledge of the language itself. But if know the basics, I can usually bumble along through it and get it to work.
But I'm off right now to do more snooping.

Later.

------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."

	03-11-1999 06:38									#41
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Wes, guys...

Wes, I've been going through some files. I found this--have you seen this? It's in set_inst_priority:

quote: if (a1to5_num_cities) //added by TLL 13/6/99 { zero_roads } else { no_roads }

I thought it was interesting and it relates to the AI building roads. Thought you might be interested as well.

Also, I've cleaned up the dip_str some more.

And finally, I found this:

quote: inputs Now the TRI statements here are problematical because few_incursions, many_incursions and no_incursions are also duplicated in the diplomacy files. Since these are calls from two separate functions, it may be that true returns here may have totally screwed with diplomacy at the other end. Since it doesn't seem like total_military_incursions is used anywhere I'd recommend removing the tri statements here or at least renaming them, in order to avoid conflict with diplomacy. I wonder if there is a possibility that this might be screwing up the diplomacy AI? For all my cursory looks at diplomacy AI, it seems that it is a model of some complexity. In practice though, it falls short. Whether its because the model didn't go far enough or because of conflicting functions will have to bear investigation. Anyway, that will come later, after I look at the diplomacy files.

These are some of CD's notes. In the file inputs, I found

quote: input total_military_incursions //removed TLL 13/6/99 - to avoid conflict with similarly named strings in diplomacy AI

It is absolutely amazing how much code is just sitting in this game, not being used for anything. It's just there. I was fascinated.

Anyway, I agree with that, but I'd just like to know exactly what was taken out, since there's a few mentions of incursions (i.e. trespassing).
This is from diplomacy_pre_incoming (regarding your trespassing on the AI)

quote: input military_incursions left no_incursions(military_incursions, 0, 0.2) tri few_incursions(military_incursions, 2, 1.8) right many_incursions(military_incursions, 3, 1)

Here's one in dip_pre_outgoing (for trespassing on the AI)

quote: input military_incursions left no_incursions(military_incursions, 0, 0.2) tri few_incursions(military_incursions, 2.0, 1.8) right many_incursions(military_incursions, 3, 1)

And this is from diplomacy_begin (AI trespassing on your civ)

quote: ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////// HOW MANY SOLDIER DO I HAVE IN FOREIGN LAND? ///////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// input my_military_incursions left no_my_incurions(my_military_incursions, 0, 0.5) tri some_my_incurions(my_military_incursions, 2, 1) right many_my_incurions(my_military_incursions, 4, 2)

I've adjusted these already, but here is a copy of what CD took out, from a back-up of raw CTP inputs:

quote: input total_military_incursions tri no_incursions(total_military_incursions, 0.0, 0.1) tri one_incursion(total_military_incursions, 1.0, 0.1) tri few_incursions(total_military_incursions, 3.0, 1.9) right many_incursions(total_military_incursions, 6.0, 1.0)

What the heck am I getting at? I have no idea. I think CD probably did the right thing, considering all the warnings about duplicate code, but something doesn't add up here.
There are only inputs for "my" military incursions (the AI's trespassing). There's blocks of code concerning if you trespass on the AI, but nothing about the AI trespassing--at least, I have not seen it or found it.
If I knew the 'magic word' (I dunno, "retreat" or something) that would prevent the AI from being such a pain in the ass, I'm sure I could rig up something using many_my_incursions. I dunno.
I'm going to dig for something that makes the AI withdraw when you ask, maybe something can be included that will make it automatically withdraw under certain conditions. So you don't even have to ask them to bugger off.
O that would be nice--but only in certain circumstances.
Any ideas from you guys?

Later.

------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."


[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 02, 1999).]

	03-11-1999 08:13									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

This type of stuff is what I mean when I say this game was rushed out unfinished. There are blocks of stuff in the script.slc and some of the strings about all kinds of diplomacy options that weren't implemented. And this is why I'll be pissed if they want us to pay $25 for an expansion disk that simply puts in these options that should have been there in the first place.

OK, enough ranting. The problem, it seems to me, is that the AI thinks nothing of breaking its no trespassing agreements. If you could find something referring to that, that might be the key. Keep digging.

	03-11-1999 09:27									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wes:

Hey, easy, relax
No, all that up there is being used; but the unused stuff I saw would fill a couple threads, though, that's for sure. And we don't need to pay that: smart guys like us? We'll figure it out

Yes. You are right. The AI does not give a furry pile of......if it trespasses or not.
These:
input my_military_incursions
left no_my_incurions(my_military_incursions, 0, 0.5)
tri some_my_incurions(my_military_incursions, 2, 1)
right many_my_incurions(my_military_incursions, 4, 2)


define whether or not the AI is trespassing and how much.

These
i_will_leave_his_lands
yes_i_will_leave_his_lands

are the magic words. The bottom one is used when the AI agrees to remove its unit(s) from your territory. Such as in:

quote: if( yes_i_will_leave_his_lands and (yes_cease_fire or yes_alliance)) { best_reason_to_accept }

Now the only problem now is (a) how do I word it, (b) where do I put it, and (c) how do I define several of them to make it realistic?
I have some ideas about the first two. But I'm not sure how to have it so only regular, non-special units are pulled back. Of course I'd also have to define the situations in which the AI would automatically do this. There will be many situations when it's gonna do it. But I can make it stop during alliances--if it is not at war with anyone.

All that I can work out, I think, but I can't locate any code regarding "special" units.

Well, I'll keep looking.

O I feel a vaccine is near!

Later.

N.


------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."

	03-11-1999 17:18									#44
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Nordicus: Glad you are making progress! I think that you have hit upon the same problem as I found when modifying the diplomacy - there isn't really a way of translating diplomatic sentiments into real-worl actions.

If you want to stop the AI trespassing, then I believe that the only way to do it would be to load the pull units into citiies aip, which would prevent the ai exploring. Or you could create an aip which demands ~ 3 units/city, and reduce the harassment priority. But none of these measures would prevent the AI from tresspasing on one person specifically. Also there is no way of referencing a specific civ in the flis, except in the various diplomacy ones where there is an 'understanding' that they apply to each civ in each turn.

So unfortunately I believe that, barring ugly hacks like the above, the AI will continue to have to be booted out each turn

BUT - just thought this second - maybe you could do it in SLIC? Yeah, I know that's the 'universal solvent', but think. When the AI breaks a no-tresspassing agreement, a box drops in to tell you. Can slic make a diplomatic demand for you? If so, it could demand that they withdraw a troop automatically, without informing you. If they refuse, they certainly have broken the agreement.

Maybe this is just a half-witted idea, and it's still an ugly hack, but it might just work (queue B-movie theme tune )
[This message has been edited by Simpson (edited November 03, 1999).]

	03-11-1999 19:46									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi Nordicus,

I don't think you will have a problem with unconventional troops. Yesterday when I was testing your files I was able to land a Diplomat on the soil of an AI I had a no trespassing treaty with and establishing an embassy with out breaking the treaty. However, when I tried to take a boat into waters belonging to one of the same AI's cities I got the usual "Sir are you sure you want to break the no trespassing treaty" message.

Timothy Pintello

	03-11-1999 21:07									#46
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Timothy:
Hey, some good news for a change No, it doesn't look that's a problem. I think it should be alright.


Simpson:
Hey, where you been hiding, Bart?
Yeah, that does seem to be the case--and "ugly" sure as hell is the right word for it. Hideous even. Only as a last resort will I stick those units back in the city--and still, like you mentioned, it doesn't really solve anything...it's a treatment, not a cure.
Son of a....
I've tried different variations of said ugliness but no luck yet. I have all revelent variations that will, for example, yank back its troops if there's a Peace Treaty, if it's not gearing up to attack you (hot_war_prep), if it doesn't hate you, et cetera. There's 'some' and 'many' (my_incurions) options, but I don't think 'many' is really needed. Well, I have only one, the others are 'some.' Here is an example.

quote: // N: WAIS added (I'll leave your lands if we're at Peace // and I'm trespassing like a blindfolded drunk) if(many_my_incurions and not yes_war and zero_at_war and yes_cease_fire and not hot_war_prep and not yes_alliance ) { i_will_leave_his_lands }

Now, this should logically tell the AI to withdraw its troops if it's showing no respect for the borders and isn't at war with anyone (if it is at war with someone, I don't want to hamper its ability to fight, plus I've already added an extra line to increase hot_war against other AI civs, so that should be okay), et cetera et cetera. First, no, I didn't spell "incurions" wrong: that's how it's spelled in inputs (barely caught that one), while it should be "incursions"--with an 's'--I don't know whether this was deliberate, to set it apart somehow, or just a spelling error. The only mention like this is in diplomacy_begin, and if you look, you'll see it spelled without an 's.'
Anyway, that doesn't matter cuz I don't know where to put this...or if it's even worded right. It looks right, but the error says UNKNOWN SET blah blah...doesn't get it. Might be that 'i_will_leave_his_lands' bit, maybe stick a 'yes_' in front of it. I dunno, if I knew where to put it.

But I see what you're saying about the message box thing, Simpson. That does sound familiar somehow. But not quite. Hmmmm. Well, thanks for the suggestions, Bart

Wes:
Are you gettin any of this? This still could work, but I'm getting low on ideas--what do you know about this message box Slic thing? It's an empty message box you can enter code into...right?--what?--how?--when?--where?
Anyone else...?

N.


------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."



[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 03, 1999).]

	04-11-1999 04:40									#47
	Support Apolyton

Nordicus

I have not looked through the files you are working on but try using the logical operator && (two ampersands) instead of "and". At least that's what is used in C.

Hope that helps.


------------------
Gemini

	04-11-1999 15:49									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Nordicus: I've been hiding from my project advisor, and trying to get some work done .

Still, no need for that right now... You might want to check if i_will_leave_his_lands is a valid output. Only flags that appear in an output block can be used in this way. yes_i_will_leave_his_lands is an input, so no use.

I've looked through most of the files and haven't found anything that looks like it will do this. It seems that the programmers decided to hard-code compliance, so unless someone wants to pull apart the AI com files (Uuugh), I don't believe there is an elegant way of doing this

Not to depress you, of anything..

	04-11-1999 18:09									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Gemini:
Hey! How's it going? I took a look at those units you sent---> excellent!, especially the infantry types. Really good work, but I'll email you later bout those.
As for a double ampersand...????????????????
Das Folgen Schein Es Bekummernis????
Don't know whatcha mean, buddy. Thanks anyway--I know what C is, just not that familiar yet. Might not need it......


"Bart!
"Why--You little...."
Hey, Simpson.
Waaaaay ahead of yeah (for once)...and O it was not elegant...not attractive but to the three-horned, big-red-butted sloth...ugly is the understatement....

"AAAAAAAAAAHA-HUH-HA-HUH-HA--HA-HA-HAAAAA!!
I HAVE FOUND THE CURE!!!"


WAIS is dead! It's deeeeeeeeead!

Okay, I had to do that. I really did.
So, I found it, put it in, and tested 4800 years' worth on a EuroAsian size continent with 7 AI civs. 4 were close enough to do some serious trespassin' (and 2 were right beside me, in an earth map, France, Germany kinda way, and the other was Indonesia, who was closer to me (Germany)).
Here is one example (of one variation) :

quote: input i_will_leave_his_lands tri yes_i_will_leave_his_lands(i_will_leave_his_lands, 1.5, 0.5) // N: WAIS added (I'll leave your lands if you're scary // and I'm not going to fight you) if(some_my_incurions and peaceful and (afraid_of_him or terrified_of_him) and not hot_war_prep and not yes_alliance ) { yes_i_will_leave_his_lands }

I was extra nice in everyone in this game, (except two...alone on Swamp Island...really pathetic...don't wanna talk about that), to the remaining 12 civs, besides me, and France, my second closest neighbor, stayed off my territory. OFF MY TERRITORY!!!--4000 years I never saw them once near my cities or anything. I was astounded! Of course they were continually in love with me (had that heart all over their faces), which did it. As soon as my regard started falling, I started seeing their troops creeping up. All special units from varied civs got through.
As for Indonesia, this was different: they were not so easily won over by gold and advances and maps as Christmas presents. They did do a bit of trespassing, and the angrier they became, the worse it got (three units, maximum, if you can call that 'worse'). And one knight took a long cruise by a few of my cities--I mistook it (green) for the Japanese (light blue...I was getting tired), warned Japan twice to get lost (of course they had no troops near me), so I killed the horse and immediately called up the Japanese to apologize. Yup. They were angry, nothing else. It was the Indonesians who were at war with me, and rightly so. 2,000 gold, 4 advances, and 5 maps later, they (Indonesians) came to look at me with that frowny face. That's as good as it got with them. The Japanese and Italians were scared of me and stayed away. Not one incursion (or 'incurion,' as it says for the AI).

However, something was not right. The only war or conflict was with barbarians, and that one-time accident with the Indonesians. One freak war in 4800 years??? Never happened before in any Civ game that I've been in. Sure I was being nice and all...but the AI never attacked another AI. Not once.

So, looks like I might have it but just need now to redefine the variations--> I forgot one for alliance, and one for AI to AI, as well as some general changes. Remember too that I was being extremely nice on purpose, cuz if you're warlike or insulting, it won't matter unless, say, you're scary to them or at war with someone or they're at war with someone.
So, needs more testing: esp. the war part. Also, on a smaller landmass.

But I'm exhausted, probably just rambling here, so talk to you guys tomorrow.


N.


------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."

	05-11-1999 06:34									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Don, Wes, Timothy:

Hey, mandingas! I'm still waiting for the file--v.1.0 diplomacy_pre_incoming--not the v1.1 one. If you haven't gotten your mail yet, do not install v.1.1 diplomacy_pre_incoming unless you like syntax errors. There's one in there, regarding map exchanges or accepting treaties.

Nevermind, Don just sent it
Sorry to bother you.
As you were

N.

------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."

	05-11-1999 08:09									#51
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Nordicus,

V1.1 diplomacy_pre_incoming fixed. I really like what I see, can't wait to start a game with it.

Don

	06-11-1999 05:58									#52
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Okay, so the run-away Peace offering is fixed, and the AI should not offer one if you have an alliance.
Also, again, in order to get coordinate efforts in WAIS prevention, please change your ctp_data/default/gamedata Const.txt file so that (near end of file, line 277)

LEAVE_OUR_LANDS_ROUNDS

has a '10' after it, not '3.' I apologize for not recalling that earilier, but now is better than not at all ~_^
Wes, if you're the Const-able (yuk yuk), then ship em out with the changed number.
Alrighty-then.

Sidenote: has anyone built a wormhole yet in any of your games? I haven't yet and I'm very curious to see how the AI will react to you (and other AIs) now that I've changed that. It should try like hell to steal tech. If another AI builds it, the reaction will be stronger (default is virtually nothing, but there should be some reaction, if not anywhere near the one when you build it). But let me know how this goes.

Okay, talk later. Must eat now.


N.

	06-11-1999 08:18									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Okay...I was just informed that the default was 10 already! Why the hell was it default 3 in my game?--this question is rhetorical.
So, alright, just make certain it's ten and no less.
Anyone who has the Awesome Aips v.1.11 be advised that Wes's latest aip files (which I just got now) were not in there and need to be added. From now on, all my updated files will be sent to Wes, who will then send them to you. Just a small mix up.
Sorry bout that. But it should all be together from now on, since I'm handing the distribution part over to Wes

Later.

	07-11-1999 06:53									#54
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Wes:

I'm looking at your Const.txt file. Here is the line from it:

LEAVE_OUR_LANDS_ROUNDS 3

~_^

I thought someone told me that it was set at default at 10?
I have the song "Mind Games" going through my head.
It's all a conspiracy!!
Get back to me on this please.

	07-11-1999 19:23									#55
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Hey, everyone...

Here's the up-to-the-minute changes:


[Sidenote: since I found that last one confusing with all the ** and ## and other such symbols (I'm lazy), I changed it (yet again) so that now it makes more sense...or sense period ]

"diplomacy_begin.fli"
(--this file is responsible for loading all relevant data used by the AI at the start of its turn and beginning diplomacy; this is the 'main' diplomacy file and it's distinctive from the others; and the changes I've made are very briefly listed here...I could be more specfic, but that would take a while --anyway, to make the AI a worthy, intelligent, and humanlike opponent, we thought these changes were necessary--in all files mentioned here or those that will be--but a much more complex and detailed list can be made available if required, but just not for a while)

1. WAIS balance: stricter border policy
2. Lower Regard for fighting AI's friends
3. Fewer WAIS: AI "incurions" adjusted
4. Trust values changed (neutrality created)
5. Lower Regard between AIs' Treaties broken
6. Regard lost to 1st place AI: distrust added, less hate
7. Regard lost to 1st place human: distrust added, less hate
8. Stronger Reaction by AI to closeness and quantity of others on same continent
9. Stronger Reaction by AI to human special attack
10. Stronger Reaction " " " " many " attacks
11. Reaction to a little pirating less trust
12. Weaker Reaction by AI to human trespassing to balance--values lowered--still very little tolerance
13. Slightly weaker reaction to human some trespasses--but values changed
14. Stronger Reaction to human & AI trespassing, many
15. Weaker Reaction to one demand rejected (AI will be neutral)
16. Higher Regard for attacking AI's enemy (trust)
17. Stronger Reaction by AI to attack other AI
18. Stronger Reaction " " if human keeps word (trust)
19. A bit weaker Reaction " " if human breaks stop pollution ONCE--only once
20. A bit weaker Reaction " " if human attacks AI's friend ONCE--only once
21. Stronger Reaction " " if human builds wormhole--no trust, extreme cold war, etc.
22. Stronger " " " " AI builds wormhole
23. Higher Regard between AIs when human " "
24. Changed Regard lost to being human--if peaceful, neutrality by AI
25. Changed " " " " "--if warlike, less 'bad feeling,' more distrust
26. WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome) Vaccine
27. Less Trust when attacking AI's friends
28. Added Regard setting for attack the AI if it does not remove troops from your territory (AI reaction will be slight), new "hate_attack" input
29. see 28 but for warlike civ
30. see 28 but for peaceful civ
31. see 28 but for alliances
32. see 28 but for Peace Treaty
33. Last place low Regard added for 1st warlike AI that considers last place civ (any) too close and too weak
34. see 33 but not very close (on same continent, however)


"diplomacy_accepted.fli"
(--this file is responsible for determining the AI's reactions & regard, how it "feels" when X happens--such as, if you break a stop trespass agreement (and you're warlike and the AI doesn't like you or trust you and *whatever*), the AI will react to it according to its predefined code--in this simple example, it won't react in a very friendly at all.)

35. Neutral Regard for human Accepted greetings
36. Higher Regard for " Accepted advance demand
37. Higher Regard " " Accepted gold demand
38. Lower Regard " " Accepted stop pirate demand
39. Higher Regard " " Accepted attacking enemy of AI demand
40. Lower Regard if the AI Accepted human offer of gold
41. Lower Regard " " " Accepted " " " map exchange
42. Lower Regard " " " Accepted " " " map offer
43. Lower Regard " " " Accepted " " " ecopact offer
44. Loyality inputs (trust) added
45. More trust for keeping Stop Trespass agreement with AI
46. More trust for keeping Reduce Pollution agreement with AI
47. More trust for keeping Stop Piracy agreement with AI
48. More trust for keeping Attack Enemy agreement with AI
49. War-time advance exchange Regard: Neutral
50. War-time map exchange Regard: Neutral
51. Accepted Peace Treaty Regard adjusted
52. Accepted Cease Fire Regard adjusted


"diplomacy_rejected.fli"
(--this is very much like diplomacy_accepted, except that it handles the 'Rejected' side of the coin.)

53. Stronger Reaction to human Rejected stop trespassing
54. Stronger Reaction " " Rejected attack enemy demand
55. Reaction to Rejected exchange advance neutral
56. Stronger " " Rejected " " (if AI-human equal)
57. Increased AI offering "Peace Treaty" (a peace-time "cease fire" agreement)


"diplomacy_pre_incoming.fli"
(--this file is responsible for handling "incoming" diplomacy: how the AI deals with you or other AIs.)

58. Increased AI attack on 3rd party
59. Increased Reaction to human demanding AI attack
60. Increased Reaction by AI to leave lands
61. Lower Regard by AI after Accepted map offer
62. Increased Reaction to Cease Fire offer
63. Increased Reaction " Peace Treaty offer
64. Increased Reaction " Alliances offer
65. Increased Reaction to exchange advance offer
66. Increased Reaction to map exchange offer
67. All Regard concerning maps Neutral
68. AI may Accept wartime map exchange
69. AI Response to "Leave Lands": added for like, love, or neutral Regard
70. see 69 but for trust
71. see 69 but if AI is last place
72. see 69 but if you (or the civ whose borders are being violated) are in 1st place


"diplomacy_pre_outgoing.fli"
(--this file, similar to pre_incoming, is responsible for handing "outgoing" diplomacy.)

73. Increased AI demand for advances
74. Increased AI demand for gold
75. Increased AI demand to stop trade with...
76. Increased AI demand to attack enemy (if allied)
77. Increased AI demand to exchange advances
78. Map priority changed
79. Increased AI " " map exchange
80. Increased AI " " Peace Treaty-->
81. ...but not if allied
82. Increased AI " " Cease Fire
83. Increased AI demand to form alliance
84. Increased AI offers of Advance if AI is losing war--if AI is warlike
85. Increased AI offers of Advance if AI is losing war--if AI is peaceful
86. Increased AI offers of Gold if AI is losing war--if AI is warlike
87. Increased AI offers of Gold if AI is losing war--if AI is peaceful
88. Increased AI offers of exchanging Advances if AI is warlike
89. Increased AI offers of map exchanges if AI is at war--if AI is warlike
90. Increased AI offers of map exchanges if AI is at war--if AI is peaceful


Note that a lot of these are 'depending' or relative to whatever circumstances. The majority of default or CD's enhanced circumstances have not been changed. Some have been by necessity of the specific change or to keep the "fuzzy logic" rules applicable.

So, that's those five files.

"slaver.aip"--this file is responsible for defining the personality type of the Slaver. Changes include:

91. Intense desire to build Emancipation Act Wonder
92. More corporate, "greedy," behavior especailly after Emanc. Act wonder is built and slaves are freed
92. Increased interest in wonders that increase gold and trade
93. Increased interest in advances that increase gold and trade
94. Increased interest in city improvements that increase gold and trade


Changes to Barbarian behavior:
(files) "personalityBarbarian.fli," "diplomacyBarbarians.fli," "beginturnBarbarians.fli," and "barbarian.aip"--all of these comprise the AI Barbarian personality, which has been altered to become more intelligent and organized, as well as nearer to the other AI types' behavior..but this does not mean that they will be as smart as the others...the main changes are as follows...

1. Real diplomacy added
2. Barbarian city defenders added
3. Defense goals added
4. Siege goals added
5. Goody hut, Steal Tech, & Expel goals added
6. Unit priority normalized
7. Building choices normalized
8. Limited wonder building possibility (stress "possiblity")
9. Able to research all Advances
10. Production normalized



"personality.fli" files for WarMany, WarFew, SciMany, SciFew, Cleric, Slaver, and Barbarians have been changed to balance the AI offering Peace Treaties.

String text files--for the english/gamedata side.

"info_str.txt"--this file is responsible for sending to you many warnings, most messages, and a few diplomacy messages also...the changes here are entirely optional--any version of Awesome Aips will function just fine without this file or the next one ("dip_str.txt"); the changes are mainly just improvements with grammar, vocabulary, consistency, etc., as well as more interesting (not so dull or corny) and/or accurate for the situation. Again, the mod will function perfectly without it.
"dip_str.txt," the second string file, has been completely reworked. This file is responsible for all diplomatic phrases, statements, etc., seen during diplomacy. Due to the unique nature of this file's structure (randomness, for example, in responses), it has been very problematic getting most changes to take effect in the desired way. The crashes have been eliminated, but there are still (even though very few now) gramatical errors present noe and then--they are being corrected as they appear (with lower frequency), so hopefully none will exist by the time Awesome Aips is released.
Still, like the other string text file, the mod will work the same without this file. It is optional.
Since the AI behaved much smarter, I thought it necessary for it to sound smarter as well. The main changes include an expanded and varied AI vocabulary, less insulting terms, less mundane and monotonous reactions to exchanges, demands, etc., and generally an increased diplomatic tone from the AI.
The changes are way too numerous to list, so I thought I'd mention the gist of them here.


Later.

N.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 08, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 08, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 14, 1999).]

	09-11-1999 06:59									#56
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Hey, people.

I found something interesting while inputting the new map sizes. Man, I thought my math was bad--talk about sloppy. I'll quote the original from "inputs.fli":

quote: input size_of_world tri a24_48_map(size_of_world, 1152, 250.0) tri a32_64_map(size_of_world, 2048, 250.0) tri a48_96_map(size_of_world, 4608, 250.0) tri a64_128_map(size_of_world, 1152, 250.0) tri a70_140_map(size_of_world, 8192, 250.0)

So what? Well, the line I italicized does not exist. There is no map inbetween "Small" and "Medium." But that doesn't matter--look at the two numbers in bold. The first is supposed to be the total area of the world for a 64 X 128 (Large) map. I know I had to use a calculator, but this should be 8192, and 70 mulitiplied by 140 is 9800, not 8192.
So, it appears as though the AI has been confused concerning the size of the world--the Large map is a Small map, and the Gigantic map is a Large map.
~_^
I'd be confused too.
Anyway, that's fixed now:

quote: // N: new map sizes added, old ones corrected--8/11/99 input size_of_world tri a24_48_map(size_of_world, 1152, 250.0) tri a32_64_map(size_of_world, 2048, 250.0) tri a48_96_map(size_of_world, 4608, 250.0) tri a64_128_map(size_of_world, 8192, 250.0) // corrected..N tri a70_140_map(size_of_world, 9800, 250.0) // corrected..N tri a86_172_map(size_of_world, 14792, 250.0) tri a102_204_map(size_of_world, 20808, 250.0) tri a118_236_map(size_of_world, 27848, 250.0) tri a134_268_map(size_of_world, 35912, 250.0) tri a150_300_map(size_of_world, 45000, 250.0) tri a166_332_map(size_of_world, 55112, 250.0) tri a182_364_map(size_of_world, 66248, 250.0) tri a198_396_map(size_of_world, 78408, 250.0) tri a214_428_map(size_of_world, 91592, 250.0) tri a230_460_map(size_of_world, 105800, 250.0) tri a246_492_map(size_of_world, 121032, 250.0)

I also inputted more players (32), so I'm going to check that out soon here.

	09-11-1999 11:28									#57
	Inflate your Upload Space

Nordicus,

Two things I got to know.

1) When the radar coverage is off, does the 246x492 map look normal in the map window?

2) How long does a 246x492 game last?

I would love to try this sometime and could probably handle it. Although, I can't help but wonder how many low-end computers would grind to a halt while playing a 32-Civ, 246x492 map game. In the later part of the game, it seems like the poor AI would be huffing and puffing and take 10 minutes to cycle through all the Civs.

	09-11-1999 13:53									#58
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Hey.

1. Don't know. Haven't tried the 246 X 492 yet. I've redone all the colors in the 'radar' map to reflect the terrain's actual colors. But in the 182 X 364 (the size I'm now using) map, everything looks okay to me: the white square cursor thing in the 'radar' map that you move around with your 'hand' gets smaller when the map sizes increase; the general view is alright--you can see whoever's cities, et cetera, but you have to look harder if the civ's color is similar to the terrain it's near; and of course the larger the map, the smaller things appear. I've gotten use to that by now though.

2. Well, like I said, I have yet to try that one. I'm fine actually with this size now. I don't see the point in using bigger ones now since this one (182 X 364) can house a perfect Earth map game--all the details and islands and ocean-land proportions are fantastic, beautiful. Even with the old 118 X 236 one there was no way to have the Atlantic in proportion with the Pacific (unless you wanted anorexic continents)...and I always had to oversize Japan and England, and other islands so that the AI could house enough cities on it to compete. It's wonderful--if I'm Russia, no hassles from Egyptian troops in -2000! The feel is very realistic, I find. Especially the oceans--takes a long time to cross the Pacific.

This 'inputs.fli' can be included in the mod: it doesn't change map sizes but makes it possible to have them and now to have the AI comprehend the size of the world. The civs inputted are, again, not changing anything, but like the maps the AI will understand how many players are in the game.

Additional code could be added later to force the AI to use a specific strategy in *whatever* size world against *whatever* number of civs.
But not right now.

I'm trying 29 civs now (which should be cool when the new AIP personality types are put in later), and it's a bit slow. On my system, as you know a PIII 450, it takes about a minute or two for the initial load setup. With 16 civs it took about 15-30 seconds for the AI to finish a turn. Now, with 29, it takes probably a little over a minute to complete its turn. Not bad considering the massive world it has to crunch.
Ah, my strategy works fine--half the civs aren't around in the latter half of the game, so there's not that much to shuffle

Yeah, I just tried putting in new colors for all 32 civs in Colors00.txt and afterward, I received a crash and an error saying that "expected close brace" was "missing" in line 90. ("ERROR DURING PARSE.") I farted around with it for a while, but it seems as though a guy can't put colors in for more than 16 players.
I had a terrain/goods flashback and had to leave it, put in the old file.

calm blue ocean
calm blue ocean
calm bl.....


Sure. Once the 'inputs' file is included, all you need to do is go into Const.txt, find the map sizes and punch in the sizes you want. The four sizes have to increase by multiples of 16 and 32, as in

48 X 96
(+16) (+32)
64 X 128

and so on. Also, the map.txt has to changed or I could send you mine.

Later.

	09-11-1999 21:43									#59
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Nordicus: Brilliant!! Setting an input from within the flis.. I don't believe I've ever seen anything like this in any of the files. Certainly would never have occured to me. I can't decide whether the programming was sloppy or just incredibly elegant, lol!

I'm not surprised about there being no wars - the AI must think it always has a peace treaty, the poor thing.

So congratulations on proving me so wrong !

	10-11-1999 13:01									#60
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This is great work, Nordicus. Send this to me, and I will put it the rest of the stuff. You will probably want to include a detailed explanation of your work on this file in the readme. I didn't really understand what you meant until your follow-up posts here.