19-12-1999 03:39									#1
	Massive maps and longer games??? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is just a poll to see if there is anyone out there interested in longer games (700 turns) on really large maps (500x1000). As of right now I'm working on a 560x1040 map of Earth with a ratio of 10miles per tile. I need to know if there is any demand for this type of map since it's very time consuming and will require editing of unit characteristics to be implemented properly... just a thought...

OMNI

	20-12-1999 12:18									#2
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Problem:

Your pc will need as much memory, as you can put into it. Right now I'm playing on a 192x256 map with 11 civs.

Using all the best mods I can find (including the new AAIP - great, great grafics - see the gallon, it's better done than the ship-of-line - and the javelin....) it now takes 3-4 minutes pr. turn. And I have 96 Megs.

But you can bet there are demand for it - if I don't get a 128 Meg blok as a X-mas gift, then I'll buy on myself after NewYear - that's for sure.

	20-12-1999 12:22									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Problem:

Your pc will need as much memory, as you can put into it. Right now I'm playing on a 192x256 map with 11 civs.

Using all the best mods I can find (including the new AAIP - great, great grafics - see the galleon, it's better done than the ship-of-line - and the javelin....) it now takes 3-4 minutes pr. turn. And I have 96 Megs.

But you can bet there are demand for it - if I don't get a 128 Meg blok as a X-mas gift, then I'll buy on myself after NewYear - that's for sure.

	21-12-1999 10:05									#4
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So far it doesn't appear to be any real problem... the test map has 21 civs and measures the full 560x1080 and I'm running only on 128Mb... sure the game is slowed, approx 2-4 per computer turns but life isn't that fast either.... the game should take about 60 hours to complete... isn't something this good worth wasting 60 hours to play especially if there is a real realism factor involved....

OMNI

	21-12-1999 01:12									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

60 hours - that's very fine indeed.

Earlier I often use 25-35 hours on a CIV II game and now (CTP) the double on a normal game - even when I seldom finish the game.

OK - I wrote it before: I'm slow. Like to think what I'm doing before I do it.

Same as in the RTS AgesOfEmipire, where my best score was about 650 on the Zone (DevineMe) - where I lost because of too much thinking.

	22-12-1999 05:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There's gonna be a delay for my map, but I hope to have it prepared for the 31st but my fingers are crossed... hopefully it goes over well....

OMNI

	16-01-2005 04:33									#7
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quote: Originally posted by OmniGod So far it doesn't appear to be any real problem... the test map has 21 civs and measures the full 560x1080 and I'm running only on 128Mb... sure the game is slowed, approx 2-4 per computer turns but life isn't that fast either.... the game should take about 60 hours to complete... isn't something this good worth wasting 60 hours to play especially if there is a real realism factor involved.... OMNI

I trust old Omnigod as he was very active..gonna have a go at how this works for an epic map

will let ya know

Gramps

	09-02-2005 15:55									#8
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Hi guys, i'm new, can u tell me where can i find these maps, the idea of playing a massive 500x1000 map make me wonder and with 31 civs, wow, should be so fun! What can i do to take it?

I know for example how to edit the units properties to adapt them to different conditions, such as inccreasing or decreasing their movement or whatever... If u need to know... just check the units.txt in the gamedata folder...

	09-02-2005 18:41									#9
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I been making my own but you could check the download section of the call to power section on the main page of apolyton...maps are there..not sure of the largest map however..

Peace and good luck

Gramps

	09-02-2005 18:42									#10
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You'll find CtP1 maps online here and here, but they're not particularly large (no larger than 140x100, if I'm not mistaken). OmniGod ended up releasing his very large maps only for CtP2, not for CtP1. If you want very large maps for CtP1, I'm afraid you'll have to make them yourself...

	09-02-2005 18:47									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

and then you will have to tweak with ai

I did one about 350 X 700 and 3 of ai literally wandered around never settled...

Thanks Locutus for the feedback

	09-02-2005 19:18									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll and then you will have to tweak with ai I did one about 350 X 700 and 3 of ai literally wandered around never settled...

I believe CtP2 has some similar problems. Try making the map smaller. In CtP2, the largest maps Omni could make without causing AI problems was something like 210x210. You'll just have to fiddle with the size and maybe AI files to find the maximum for CtP1...

	09-02-2005 19:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus I believe CtP2 has some similar problems. Try making the map smaller. In CtP2, the largest maps Omni could make without causing AI problems was something like 210x210. You'll just have to fiddle with the size and maybe AI files to find the maximum for CtP1...

Thanks for the feedback

which, through trial and error I ended up coing to that conclusion..

Gramps

	10-02-2005 15:59									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Which AI problems could I encounter if i make a very large map?
And also how do i make one?

Anyway thank u for the help

	10-02-2005 16:01									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh yeah, another thing yet!
Why do my downloaded world map 24 and stuff saved games doesnt work? How can i make them work?

Thanks

	10-02-2005 16:02									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Casey_Val Which AI problems could I encounter if i make a very large map? And also how do i make one? Anyway thank u for the help

the ai will wander around and around at time

to make a map use the cheat mode in the game

I am on way to work but you could search the front page of apolyton and maybe a link for the guidelines for making and then saving a designed map

good luck

Gramps

	10-02-2005 16:10									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oh, thank u Grandpa Troll, so i should use the editor?

Can i make bigger maps like the ones that are on the net or i can just use the ctp new game screen to select the dimension of the map?

	10-02-2005 18:59									#18
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If you want to create maps of different sizes than those you can normally select, you can do so by editing the appropriate data file in ctp_data\default\gamedata. I can't remember what it's called exactly, but I guess it's something like map.txt.

	11-02-2005 05:45									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway If you want to create maps of different sizes than those you can normally select, you can do so by editing the appropriate data file in ctp_data\default\gamedata. I can't remember what it's called exactly, but I guess it's something like map.txt.

const.txt will change the map and then you have river lengths and mountain and hills ect.

Have fun

Gramps

	11-02-2005 13:51									#20
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You can change the mapsize itself in const.txt as Grandpa Troll said, but then your random maps will look all messed up. By experimenting with adjusting the various values in map.txt you can make random maps look normal again.

	11-02-2005 16:06									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

thank u guys, that it will help a lot. I'll try both ways, then use the editor to make a super map

For now i'm playing a standard game with a random map and it's fine, but u know, i need a very good large map realistic... and lots of civs to make it interesting and challenging

	11-02-2005 17:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus You can change the mapsize itself in const.txt as Grandpa Troll said, but then your random maps will look all messed up. By experimenting with adjusting the various values in map.txt you can make random maps look normal again.

and now I learned something

Thanks

Gramps

	19-02-2005 07:11									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

my experience(s) with very large maps a while ago (250x500 i believe):

- about a third to half of the AIs didnt move at all. nor did they ever settle.

and with more than 8 civs:

- you can play single player games with up to 32 civs. the colors (especially the green) will be hard to distinguish, but it will work. also i believe you can define the colors somewhere.
however, once you want to play with other people (hotseat, PBEM), you are always limited to 8 civs. at least i havent found a way around that yet.

	19-02-2005 07:16									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician my experience(s) with very large maps a while ago (250x500 i believe): - about a third to half of the AIs didnt move at all. nor did they ever settle. and with more than 8 civs: - you can play single player games with up to 32 civs. the colors (especially the green) will be hard to distinguish, but it will work. also i believe you can define the colors somewhere. however, once you want to play with other people (hotseat, PBEM), you are always limited to 8 civs. at least i havent found a way around that yet.

correct in userprofile.txt you set to 32 (plus barbs IIRC) and yes the colors get used over and over

I found the same with the ai's going nowhere or doing nothing..

but once you trim map up they perform ok or seem to

Lets all keep posting and we will get somewhere keeping this game alive

Gramps