20-10-2002 22:03									#1
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

1) You can't win a game in Rise of Nations with air power alone. Cities can be bombed and bombed, but if the enemy has no ground units to go in and capture it, it will remain your city.

2) Bombers are far more effective against buildings in our game than against units. This gives our mobile anti-air units an edge.

3) Our unit AI is not yet complete, but they do attack the first thing to come into range. As more targets become available, re-evaluating which they shoot at is something they should do.

Being overwhelmed by one type of unit is pretty common in RTSs, at least the ones I've played. The cost goes up slightly for each unit you build of the same type in Rise of Nations, so massing one type of unit gets pretty expensive.

	20-10-2002 23:54									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Tassadar, that is my favorite tactics, I ussually build many airports and have tons of bombers/nuclear bombers/fighter-bombers/fighters . And this by the way makes using such tactic on me impossible, because city is always circled by all fighters/fighter-bombers I have. If there is like 30-45 fighters in air over the edge of city it is hard to bring many bombers. I also won almost all German campaign only by air force, in Verdun and Somme there were no ground troops, just countless fighters and bombers claiming new and new territories.

As for unability to win by air force, I think this won't be exacly so - you will be able to just paradrop in a territory near city (I've heard paradrops will be allowed in RoN). by the way, will fighters be able to attack ground targets since some epoch? Since in reality now fighters like F-117, F-18, etc. are very commonly used to take out ground targets.

	21-10-2002 03:28									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, fighters and bombers can both attack ground units but it's not what they are best at.

Only one type of unit has [or had] the ability to paradrop and they don't have the ability to capture cities.

	21-10-2002 14:34									#4
	Tired of ads?

so does that mean paratroopers are out?

	21-10-2002 21:11									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As with any game in development, things come and go. Currently the ability for the Elite Special Forces unit to perform a paradrop is no longer in the game.

	21-10-2002 21:15									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well I am sure they will show up in an xpack. afterall people whined enough about it for EE it got added in their xpack.

	21-10-2002 22:30									#7
	Suffering from ads?

So I'm guessing that RoN will emphasize combined arms in order to be successful, right?

	23-10-2002 09:49									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Rushing in general should be fixed. If you would like to look at a longer thread on this issue, take a look at this one: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=54318 .

I also wrote a long column on this issue but it was never published. But I think ideas on solving rushing are vital to the vitality of RTS.

	26-10-2002 00:34									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i'm curious as to how the "early game rush" is being combatted, not so much the late game buildup being discussed.

whats to stop someone from attacking me 10 minutes into the game? Attrition seems fairly good, but how effective is it?

	26-10-2002 01:18									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX i'm curious as to how the "early game rush" is being combatted, not so much the late game buildup being discussed. whats to stop someone from attacking me 10 minutes into the game? Attrition seems fairly good, but how effective is it?

Uber,

From what I have read, BHG solution to early game rush is a rule that is optional that you cannot attack until a certain tech is reached, such as gunpowder. There, as far as I know, has been no attempt to end early game rushing through game strategies or elements of the ingame engine except attrition, which you pointed out has not been explained to as how effective it really is.

	26-10-2002 01:34									#11
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well i dont think rushing should be prevented. although there definitely should be steps to contain it so that it isnt as deadly as previous RTS titles. having defences to meet a rush is the bare minimum, but still puts u at a disadvantage for not using them to rush with. To be fair the prepared individual should come out ahead of a rusher.

	27-10-2002 00:41									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Supply issues should make rushing a tactic that can't really be used, except on very small maps (where starting cities are very close to each other). Seems to me this is the main way RoN handles rushing.

	04-11-2002 02:52									#13
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how many minutes can you set the no-rush rule?

	04-11-2002 20:40									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

For those who want some time to build up their nations, you can set the no rush rules for anywhere from a few minutes to upwards of half an hour. You can also set no rush rules for specific ages, such as Gunpowder Age.

In a regular game without any rushing rules involved, the defensive player has an advantage, attrition. Enemy units in your territory will slowly be taking damage. (The amount of damage is not yet written in stone as we balance the game) Not only that, but a rusher will have to deal with defensive buildings such as towers, which are a wise investment for a player with an expansionist agenda.

Rushing is not something that the designers are looking to take out of a regular game. The goal is to make a strategy like the boom just as viable as the rush, so that there isn't just one winning strategy.

	05-11-2002 17:33									#15
	Remove this text

Graham.. come here for a second; I need to have a secret conversation with you....

Anun waves Graham over to the corner

You can't do this! If you make a strategy game THIS great, you are going to have a monopoly on RTS games, and the government will try to break up BHG before you can make an expansion pack! Please be careful..

	06-11-2002 14:57									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Graham@BHG Rushing is not something that the designers are looking to take out of a regular game. The goal is to make a strategy like the boom just as viable as the rush, so that there isn't just one winning strategy.

that is great to hear...