18-10-2002 02:55									#1
	Reasons why you DON'T want to use ICBMs Got spare money?

I was wondering if declaring war to France or not when all of sudden they basically trashed our peace treaty and used 4 ICBMs on my most populated cities- of course I had to reply to such a kind gift with at least 36 ICBMs

And here's why you should never use nuclear weapons






1880 AD one turn before France attacks- german population is up to 160 millions, greengrass everywhere -yes, I was STILL researching Integrated Defense






1972 AD France is wiped out of the continent- german population shrinks to 40 millions, desert expands over ocean tiles (south of Montpellier)- Frankfurt pop collapse from 28 citizens to 3

When I'll end this game I'll never use ICBMs again- even if it's so damn fun
Your thoughts?

Last edited by Datajack Franit on 18-10-2002 at 04:34

	18-10-2002 03:14									#2
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I use nukes only when I am going to follow up with ground troops to take the city (metro usually), or if there is a Stack of Doom (SOD) to be devastated.

I had forewarning about the environmental consequences of nuclear holocaust, so I haven't done it.

BTW DF, what graphic format did you use? I can't see them on my Mac.

(I understand that AI SODs are going to be rare in PTW.)

	18-10-2002 03:29									#3
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Mac? ehm.. yes I'm stupid

I used bitmap- btw nukes are very important only in the early modern times, using 3-4 of them is still ok- but then, using ICBMs in every single enemy city is definitely not the smartest thing to do

	18-10-2002 03:32									#4
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I can not see them on my PC either.

	18-10-2002 04:35									#5
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Ok now it works properly- many apologies but this was my first attempt

	18-10-2002 06:20									#6
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Much better now, DF. Thank you.

	18-10-2002 07:38									#7
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How curious! The desert also spread into the ocean south of Lyon...it now includes a fish bonus resource!

Does that fish still provide extra food, I wonder?

	18-10-2002 08:36									#8
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yes it does, and I even planted a forest there, so it's a forested fish now

But it was a matter of one turn and it became desert again

	18-10-2002 18:48									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That has to be a new record for pollution.

This is why I only nuke everything after the scoring has ended. Nuke everything and quit so you don't have to deal with stuff like this. I wonder what would happen to naval units when their tile turns to desert (beached?).

	18-10-2002 20:30									#10
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How many 'Global warming' alerts did you get each turn?

	18-10-2002 21:32									#11
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Just imagine what that would have done in CivII. Global warming was worse in CivII. I shudder at the thought.

-Arrian

	18-10-2002 22:26									#12
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quote: How many 'Global warming' alerts did you get each turn?

About 10 tiles every turn, but curiously there are still lots of tundra tiles in the south of the continent

	18-10-2002 23:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit About 10 tiles every turn, but curiously there are still lots of tundra tiles in the south of the continent

Tundra can not be changed due to global warming. When a tile is subject to global warming, its 'value' is decreased by 1 (grassland -> plains -> desert and planted tile -> unplanted tile). Desert and tundra have the lowest 'value' and hills and mountains are not subjects to global warming.
So, to protect a tile, you can plant trees on it. That's what I am trying to do to protect what remains me (30 alerts per turn now and 60 some turns ago).

	19-10-2002 00:07									#14
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Actually I had 156 workers doing that, but it was so damn boring that I trashed the game and started another one

	19-10-2002 00:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Actually I had 156 workers doing that, but it was so damn boring that I trashed the game and started another one

I agree, but I want to test global warming evolution; and it seems to decrease with time.

	19-10-2002 00:57									#16
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My game's pollution would have started to decrease around 5000 AD

Ah what was again the command for automatic forest planting/pollution removal?

	19-10-2002 01:21									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit My game's pollution would have started to decrease around 5000 AD Ah what was again the command for automatic forest planting/pollution removal?

SHIFT P for automatic pollution removal
SHIFT F for automatic forest removal
SHIFT J for automatic jungle removal
there is no command to automate forest planting

	19-10-2002 01:41									#18
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Many thx- moving workers by yourself is fun in the modern times btw

	19-10-2002 01:49									#19
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Shift + A, which is "automate but don't change existing improvements" will prioritize pollution cleanup, by the way. Once I have my cities all set up, I will shift A the bulk of my slav... err... workers, and pollution typically won't last a turn (without nuclear holocaust, that is).

-Arrian

	19-10-2002 13:52									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian [...] pollution typically won't last a turn (without nuclear holocaust, that is.

Yes, it's easier without nuclear holocaust. With nuclear holocaust it is impossible, pollution last at least one turn (as there is no more road to polluted tiles).

	21-10-2002 05:57									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

So pollution can decrease after a while? Of course, tiles cannot reverse from desert to their previous status

	21-10-2002 07:07									#22
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are those boreholes instead of mines?

	21-10-2002 07:25									#23
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Just a mod

	22-10-2002 05:54									#24
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I love ICBMs. If I am the most powerful and the only one to have them then I will use them. Of course all the other AI civs declare war whenever I launch one. It is weird that the AI declares war on me when I am the only one to have ICBMs. Their capital will be next and they are basically digging their own grave but whatever floats their boat.

	22-10-2002 09:20									#25
	Put an end to popups!

I will not use nukes unless absolutely necessary. If the AI uses them against me then I may return them. I normally avoid them and prefer conventional wars. It saves my enviorment and I get a better score and do better in the end. But sometimes nukes may become necessary and then I will use them.

	22-10-2002 20:55									#26
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Datajack,

IIRC, the global warming stops once you've cleaned up the pollution from the nuclear weapons. Takes a long time though. You could look on the bright side...All those rivers eventually will run through deserts producing flood plains!! Some cities will shrink in size, some will grow. I had a 20+ city turn into a 37 city after a nuclear war.

And if you wanted to reduce the effect of pollution on the cities, for the coastal cities, make the warhead detonate over the ocean with the city still in the blast radius. The units will still take lots of damage, but the city will keep it's large population and the surrounding terrain won't be nearly as polluted. I often used nukes in civ 2 to destroy enemy ships without the adverse pulluting effects!

badams

	22-10-2002 21:01									#27
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Nym,

I too thought hills and mountains are unaffected by global warming, but there must have been a bug since one of my hills deevolved and turned into flood plains with an iron resource!

badams

	22-10-2002 21:33									#28
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quote: Originally posted by badams52 Datajack, IIRC, the global warming stops once you've cleaned up the pollution from the nuclear weapons.

I thought that pollution on the ground has no impact on warming, it wil ony damage the tile and improvements?
Warming will not stop unless cities are no longer polluting. All cities, not just yours contribute to world wide warming. At least that is my understanding.

	22-10-2002 23:21									#29
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Well, so I basically have to crush every single enemy city? Consider it done

	23-10-2002 00:48									#30
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I thought that pollution on the ground has no impact on warming, it wil ony damage the tile and improvements? Warming will not stop unless cities are no longer polluting. All cities, not just yours contribute to world wide warming. At least that is my understanding.

I stand corrected. After further testing (nuking the ocean over 50 times), it seems that the pollution on the ground does not affect global warming. I don't know if there is a way to decrease the global warming effect from nukes unless it just takes time. After about 10 turns, I was still getting 5-10 global warming terrain alterations per turn. Just too much to worry about!

But I did find out that if you nuke the ocean over 50 times you will cause yourself and the AI cities much grief with global warming. If you want to decrease your opponents city size, you could nuke the ocean.

badams