20-10-2002 22:18									#1
	Economic Report #4 & Budget Full PM-box? Change here!

700 AD:
--------------
#1, Economic Report:

This report brings us one hell of a monstrous chart. It details the income versus corruption in terms of the provinces. The results show, more than anything, that the Persian Lowlands have an incredible base for income but are unbelievable corrupt: corruption outnumbers income almost SEVEN TO ONE!!! Thus I am instituting a second round of requests for courthouses in the following cities:

Muncie, Persian Lowlands
Susa, Persian Lowlands
Tarsus, Persian Lowlands
New York, Piña Colada
Welsh Coast, Uber Island
Antioch, Persian Highlands
Willsbury, Persian Highlands

Seven requests, all of which are being forwarded to the City Planner office.
--------------

#2, Budget:

The City Planner has not yet forwarded to me specific requests.
The SMC is granted 500 gold to upgrade five (5) war chariots.
The Foreign Ministry is allowed up to 20 lytons per/turn for deals.

Attachment: issue4-1.jpg
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	21-10-2002 04:17									#2
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Hopefully, the corruption problem will be lessened when the palace and Forbidden Palace ar in place

Thanks for the chart comparison, Reddawg!!

	21-10-2002 11:41									#3
	Re: Economic Report #4 & Budget Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Reddawg 700 AD: -------------- #1, Economic Report: Thus I am instituting a second round of requests for courthouses in the following cities: Muncie, Persian Lowlands Susa, Persian Lowlands Tarsus, Persian Lowlands New York, Piña Colada Welsh Coast, Uber Island Antioch, Persian Highlands Willsbury, Persian Highlands Seven requests, all of which are being forwarded to the City Planner office. --------------

I'm changing them back, I also want them for the Production Increase.

quote: #2, Budget: The City Planner has not yet forwarded to me specific requests.

Here are some preliminary (20% done) Request for Rushes, mostly for courthouses and a few throughput request:

Needed:
Willsbury - Courthouse for 208L.
Bacteria - Courthouse for 240L.
Geofront - Courthouse for 184L.
Napoleton - Courthouse (after turn 3) for 280L.
Thebes - Courthouse for 272L.

Because of cash on hand, I'll be doing them 1 to 2 at a time, starting with the cheapest (subtract 4-8L for every turn not rushed).

Throughput:
Jerusalem - Cathedral for 20 Lytons in turn 0.
Jerusalem - Worker for 16 Lytons in turn 3 (2 turns after Cath built). This is on the PW Budget and I've made a request to him to release the funds.

More tomorrow, It's bed time for me.

E_T

	21-10-2002 14:18									#4
	Tired of ads?

E_T- Will rushing courthouses for so much will give us what we need- is the extra gold and production we'll get from those cities is greater than the cost of rushing and upkeep, in terms of overall time to their completion. That is to say- if we rush a courthouse while the city has X income, and X+a income after courthouse- is a minus upkeep of courthouse (=1g) will be greater than the production times 4 (the "gold" we make each turn while not rushing)?

This is the income factor, add to this the extra production factor from the courthouse and consider whether it's worthile. (couldn't think of a way of putting it in variables and add it to the income calculation)

	21-10-2002 17:58									#5
	Put an end to popups!

zeit that's an excellent question, which I can answer but not until I've looked to see how long it would take these cities to complete their courthouses; illlook into it.

	21-10-2002 22:07									#6
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Zeit & Reddawg, a Court House would also pay for itself if we get one less shield wasted per turn in the city in terms of production.

Getting a forbidden palace out there will take a long time to build unless we get a Great Leader & that choice wins the GL poll. Personally I'll vote for Fobidden Palace if we get a Great Leader during the French war, but I'm not sure if it would win.

	21-10-2002 22:42									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I wasn't saying we shouldn't have courthouses, just that we must check whether it's worthwhile to rush them- both in the short and long term. I personaly think we shouldn't rush, but the numbers should be examined thoroughly first.

	22-10-2002 00:29									#8
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I looked into it, and although it's too hard for me to figure exactly (because you'd have to take into account city growth, and figure exactly how much the Courthouse will drop production) this is what I came up with:

Save 210 gold at Willsbury
Save 200 gold at Bacteria
Save 69 gold at Geofront
Save 140 gold at Napoleton
Save 68 gold at Thebes

Because there are restraints on the budget this turn, I am thus only approving rushes for Willsbury, Bacteria, and Napoleton.

	22-10-2002 01:07									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Reddawg I looked into it, and although it's too hard for me to figure exactly (because you'd have to take into account city growth, and figure exactly how much the Courthouse will drop production) this is what I came up with: Save 210 gold at Willsbury Save 200 gold at Bacteria Save 69 gold at Geofront Save 140 gold at Napoleton Save 68 gold at Thebes Because there are restraints on the budget this turn, I am thus only approving rushes for Willsbury, Bacteria, and Napoleton.

O.K., I'll schedual in the Rushes. What about the 20L for the Throughput rush on the Cathedral in Jerusalem?

FYI for anyone whose interested on the effects of Corruption/Waste in our Cities, see the Construction Shack - 700AD Corruption & Waste Statistics Thread for more information.

I plan on Rushing Courthouses after at least 10% of production (earliest that I'll do it), depending on current Production Rates and the overall benifit to our Economy and the Cities Production Rate. If the Production Rate allows the building of a Courthouse in say 7 turns, then I wouldn't rush it except as a Throughput Rush after 5 turns of building. As most of the current Courthouse Rushes are in Cities with Catasrophic Corruption/Waste (or near enough to it), they will be rushed as stated above.

E_T

	23-10-2002 10:18									#10
	Budget Request for the next 5 turns- 720AD and beyond Got spare money?

I had changed some of the requested Rushed to fit the situation after I had compiled my order. I was still keeping with the 748 Lytons that were budgeted to the MoCP. Of this I had Planned to Rush the following:
Arbela - Courthouse for 172L on Turn 0. Needed bad.
DONE
Jerusalem - Cathedral for 20 Lytons in turn 0.
DONE
Neon Uber City - Temple for 104L on Turn 1. Needed to expand and cover Uber.
DONE
San Cortez - Cathedral for 288L on Turn 2. Operation Flip ‘em off. Subtract 4L/turn.
Delayed for two turns because of Navigation

Geofront - Courthouse for 152L on Turn 4 or Turn 5 for 146L. Subtract 8L/turn.
THis was to be a total of either 730 or 722 Lytons, depending on when the Geofront Courthouse was actually Rushed. Currently have only spent 296 of the 748 that was originally budgeted.

We currently have 4 Lytons and an Income of 226LPT. So I would have to wait 2 turns to rush San Cortez & Geofront.

My request:
720AD: None
730AD: None
740AD:
San Cortez - Cathedral for 280L. Operation Flip ‘em off. Subtract 4L/turn if delayed.
Geofront - Courthouse for 152L. Subtract 8L/turn if delayed.

750AD:
Oak Ridge - Temple for 16L. This will be a Throughput Rush at this time, Not to be rushed after this date.
Contagion - Cathedral for 200L. Build up to FP. Will give WLKD and speed production of the Market that is next to build before FP. Subtract 24L/turn if delayed. Last date to Rush is 820AD.

760AD:
Hole in Wall - Harbor for 252L. Subtract 4/turn if delayed.
or
Willsbury - Courthouse for 160L. Subtract 8/turn if delayed.

770AD:
Willsbury - Courthouse for 152L. Subtract 8/turn if delayed.
or
Hole in Wall - Harbor for 248L. Subtract 4/turn if delayed.
or
Bacteria - Courthouse for 184L

780AD and beyond (turnchat after next). Costs are at that time (I might be off a bit):
Bacteria - Courthouse for 176L. Subtract 8/turn.
Whelsh Coast - Courthouse for 212L. Subtract 4/turn.
Tarsus - Courthouse for 220L. Subtract 4/turn. Need to start on more culture because of English.
Antioch - Courthouse for 220L. Subtract 4/turn
Thebes - Courthouse for 240L. Subtract 4/turn.
Muncie - Courthouse for 252L. Subtract 4/turn.
Napoleton - Courthouse for 260L. Subtract 4/turn.
New York - Courthouse for 264L. Subtract 4/turn.
Susa - Courthouse for 268L. Subtract 4/turn.
Arbela - Library for 272L after 800AD. Cultural Flip fighter vs. English and loosing Spices. Subtract about 12/Turn.
Contagion - Marketplace for about 240L after 810AD. Last phase of FP prebuild. Subtract about 32/turn, with the last chance to rush on about 860AD (time based on Cathedral completion).
HIW - at least 156L for a Caravel after a one turn build. Subtract 4/turn.

I'm going to try to petition the Population on changing the build for HIW to Courthouse. If I can get a courthouse & WLKD, then the cost & build for Harbor/ships will be greatly reduced (Waste is 88%, With court 53%, with also WLKD 39%). It will then wait for a few turns and be rushed after Thebes.

Last edited by E_T on 23-10-2002 at 10:52

	23-10-2002 16:24									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Now I'm going to need 600 lyptons ASAP to rush the WC's and 120 to upgrade archer to LB, we need to attack France before they can road the GP. My request is very great and I know it might not be possible, but after the 720(which is assume is approved), I suggest all funding necessary for war effort be approved. In the next 5 turns we will produce at least 950 gold. After the 720 (Necessary) that the rest go toward Pike to musket. I would be willing to accept the rest go to cp projects. I regret needing this much, but the situation demands nothing less. I still will be 500 short on the gold for emergency upgrades, however I see this as a risk we need to take. Of course if no workers appear to road GP, then we can delay the assault until such time as the 500 is saved. However, we MUST be ready to attack if they do try to road.(The thing is this, if they get SP connected they can still finish units started, so we MUST NOT let this happen).
Aggie

	23-10-2002 18:05									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'll have to think over and analyze this situation, and release a new budget today. Obviously there are conflicts, since you are both asking for around 2000 lytons in the next turnchat or two, and this will be impossible.

So look out for the new budget this afternoon.

	23-10-2002 20:08									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

We just might be in luck. We're about to discover the lost civs and that discovery will surely increase our income.

	23-10-2002 20:39									#14
	Remove this text

The only sad thing Shiber is this, except for tech we can't trade lux with the new civs until they get navigation, but thay galley is going to try to find them.
Aggie

	23-10-2002 20:56									#15
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quote: I'll have to think over and analyze this situation, and release a new budget today. Obviously there are conflicts, since you are both asking for around 2000 lytons in the next turnchat or two, and this will be impossible.

Please do not forget that we now have Navigation and will most likely be in contact with the Lost Civs, in at most 5 turns. We'll have to stop gameplay then and re-evaluate for the first contact negotiations that will occur. Who knows what the FAM will require in funds and what we'll make from them.

Yes I'm aware of the high cost of my request, but I did show it for different time frames and how much the cost will decrease with time. Of Major Priority, IMHO, is Contagion, Arbela and San Cortez, I can wait for funds for the others at a later date. But please keep in mind, THey only decrease so fast and the longer they wait, the longer before they can switch to something else.

quote: We just might be in luck. We're about to discover the lost civs and that discovery will surely increase our income.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Lost Civ's are very backwards and relatively poor. Remember, they have been Lost and have only known at most 3 other Civs to have been able to tech trade with. I wouldn't put my hopes on gigantic treasuries and Spectacular LPT deal that we ban possibly make. Keep off the Bananawana and deal in today.

E_T

	27-10-2002 00:40									#16
	CP budget Request for 770AD Gameplay Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We currently have 695 Lytons with an Income of 289 LPT. The listed costs are for 770AD, except for the ones that have a date listed as part of the cost (i.e. Contagion, Arbela & San Cortez)

Major Priority Rushes:
Contagion - Marketplace for 256L in 800AD, with the last date to rush in 860AD. Last Phase of FP prebuild. Subtract 36/turn.
Arbela - Library for 248L in 800AD or after. Cultural Flip fighter vs. English and loosing Spices. Subtract 16/Turn.

Other Rushes Needed (in order of Importance & Cost):
New York - Cathedral for 256L. Next Phase of Flip ‘em off. Subtract 8/Turn.
Willsbury - Court for 152L. Subtract 8/turn.
Bacteria - Court for 184L. Subtract 8/turn.
Welsh Coast - Court for 216L. Subtract 4/turn.
Tarsus - Court for 224L. Subtract 4/turn.
Antioch - Court for 240L. Subtract 8/turn.
Shiberport - Court for 240L. Subtract 8/turn.
Thebes - Court for 244L. Subtract 4/turn
Muncie - Court for 248L. Subtract 16/turn, with WF changes.
Hole in the Wall - Court for 248L. Subtract 4/turn
Napoleton - Court for 264L. Subtract 4/turn.
Ghengistown - Court for 276L. Subtract 8/turn.

Beyond 820AD:
San Cortez - After 850AD, Court for 280L. Subtract 4/turn.

I’m willing to Have the funds to Rush Contagion & Arbela. I would like the funds to rush New York & Willsbury (and maybe Bacteria), and have them rushed towards the end of gameplay (i.e. 810 & 820AD). With the limited fund availability, I have no request for City Improvement Throughput rushes, although I may ask the SMC to release the funds for a possible Mil Unit Throughput Rush for sometime in the next 5 turns.

As we’ll be going to war shortly, I’m also requesting some funds that will be needed to rush (atleast) one turn builds of Workers, Settlers & Temples in the newly Acquired Cities. As they will be under SMC control until they come out of Resistance, I have no Idea when these will occur, except it will be sometime the next Gameplay (after 820AD).

I'm also requesting that we explore changing the Science Rate slider after we have completed Research on Printing Press next Turn. I think that 10 to 20% would be good to get started, at least until we get the GA. I realize that this would effect any budget outlays, but we need to at least have a start on our own Research for a change.

E_T

	29-10-2002 00:45									#17
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E_T, I think 20% research would result in it taking too long to actually research anything first.

Unless the tech is very low cost: 30% is the same way.

I'd sugest that when we have printing press that a full comparsion be done on all possible science percentages when we have printing Press, stoping the turn chat if needed.

The science rate for Democracy needs to be decided the same turn that Printing Press is discovered.

	29-10-2002 02:01									#18
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn E_T, I think 20% research would result in it taking too long to actually research anything first. Unless the tech is very low cost: 30% is the same way. I'd sugest that when we have printing press that a full comparsion be done on all possible science percentages when we have printing Press, stoping the turn chat if needed. The science rate for Democracy needs to be decided the same turn that Printing Press is discovered.

The reason that I had asked for the 10-20% was that we are still under War Preperations and I still have a lot of big expenditures to be purchased. I don't want to drain us dry.

THe small % would atleast allow us to sock away a few Beakers and then go full steam with the GA (whick will be real soon). That way, we might get one turn fewer overall research time and still have a greater income.

E_T