21-10-2002 16:05									#1
	Trade Minister's Preliminary Orders 1160 AD, for Public Perusal Full PM-box? Change here!

Below is what I intend to submit as orders for the upcoming turns, unless someone finds a problem with it Only one Caravan established a trade route last time, so a lot of these are extensions of orders from the last set of turns. The plan to build Leo's will get us the Wonder with a rushbuy cost of only ~12 gold on turn 12.

We have 11 active Caravans and 9 being built.

Turn 0 (1160 AD)
-Gold at CAPITOL stays for Wonder

Turn 1
-Silk at CAPITOL to Shanghai
-Salt at CAPITOL stays for Wonder
-Beads at Malaga to Neijing
-Salt at Obladi to Xinjian
-Dye at Obladi to Canton
-Beads at Obladi to Tsingtao
-Cloth near China to Tsingtao
-Spice near China to Shanghai
-Wine at Valladolid to Freeport (wait for it to be demanded)

Turn 2

Turn 3

End Turn 3
-Gold Caravan from St. Praski built

Turn 4
-Caravan in St. Praski, goto CAPITOL (4 turns)

End Turn 4
-Gold Caravan from Salamanca built
-Food Caravan from Seville built
-Hides Caravan from Valencia built
-Hides Caravan from Leon built

Turn 5
-Caravan in Salamanca, goto CAPITOL (2 turns)
-Caravan in Seville, goto CAPITOL (2 turns)
-Caravan in Valencia, goto Shanghai (via penisnula N of Barcelona (?)
-Caravan in Leon, goto Osaka

End Turn 5
-Gems Caravan from Pamplona built

Turn 6
-Caravan in Pamplona, goto CAPITOL (5 turns)


Turn 7
-Salamanca Cara at CAPITOL
-Seville Cara at CAPITOL
Turn 8
-St. Praski Cara at CAPITOL

End Turn 8
-Wool Caravan from Malaga built

Turn 9
-Caravan in Malaga, goto CAPITOL

Turn 10

Turn 11
-Pamplona Cara at CAPITOL
-96 shields towards Wonder at CAPITOL - rush with 6 Caravans there, buy 4 shields left

End Turn 11
-Coal Caravan from Bilbao built

Turn 12
-Caravan in Bilbao, move to Freeport for later delivery (Coal not yet demanded)
-WONDER BUILT

End Turn 12
-Beads Caravan from Obladi built

Turn 13
-Caravan in Obladi, goto Tsingtao

I don't think we'll quite go this far. Please check the demanded list each time a new Caravan is built.
If demand info out of date, build a Caravan with the good demanded by the largest Chinese/Japanese, else
President's discretion Remember we have no knowledge of Celt location or of any Japanese cities but
Osaka, nara and Nagoya for the moment.

We will have Invention within 16 turns as long as we get a Caravan or two safely into China. This should
mean that we are able to build Leo's, if not AT turn 12, soon after. In that case just rush it
with as many Caravans as we can without waste, and rushbuy the rest.

ie Invention discovered turn #
11 - plan above: rush with 6 Caras there, buy 4 shields
12 - rush with 5 Caras, buy 46 shields (shouldn't be more than ~170gold)
13 - rush with 5 Caras, buy 38 shields (~140 gold)
14 - rush with 5 Caras, buy 32 shields (~110 gold)
15 - rush with 5 Caras, buy 26 shields (~90 gold)
16 - rush with 5 Caras, buy 18 shields (~60 gold)

	21-10-2002 17:22									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

This timetable is impressive, but I have a few questions, MinisterWIA...

1. Is it possible to expedite the caravan production through incremental rushbuild?

2. Does CAPITOL have its 3 trade routes yet?

3. Is there anything we can do to speed up some of these deliveries?

When we go Republic, we will likely be running big Happiness percentages to encourage growth. Thus, our scientific advances will be largely determined by trade bonuses. That means lots of trade (even if it's inside the Apolytonia Empire), to be carefully balanced by WoW-camels.

Thanks.

	21-10-2002 17:56									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit This timetable is impressive, but I have a few questions, MinisterWIA... 1. Is it possible to expedite the caravan production through incremental rushbuild?

Always, just depends on how much we want to allocate to one Wonder (even one as important as Leo's). We may need some cash for rushing defenses in some of those farflung colonies with little more than Warriors as defense, and I'd hate to lose some of those for want of coin. Besides, there is little point in rushing anything if we don't actually have the tech ready! I am hoping those two or three Caravans nearing China will give us enough beakers to speed the discovery of Invention to within 12 turns (currently at 16-17 turns), in which case there is no point in rushing further, unless we get enormous quantities of beakers from these 2-3 trade routes, some of which will be to tiny Chinese cities (as we know them now).

quote: 2. Does CAPITOL have its 3 trade routes yet?

Um, no, but remember the cash and beaker bonuses come from delivering the goods to where they are demanded, not necessarily to those that would give the longer-term trade bost (larger foreign cities). For the time being these trade routes would certainly be the priority, and eventually, when we have less need for CAPITOL to build Caravans for Wonders or beaker bonuses or build Wonders themselves, we can turn to permanent trade routes. ATM CAPITOL is our Wonder city, and may well stay that way whilst there are useful Wonders about.

quote: 3. Is there anything we can do to speed up some of these deliveries?

Apart from incremental rushbuying, which may lead to having the Caravans in place before we have Invention, no. All will travel along roads and are on the main continent. Now that I look at it, the Malaga Caravan is not needed in CAPITOL for Leo's, although it can go there anyway for the NEXT Wonder.

The Trade Ministry thanks Citizen -Jrabbit for his/her interest in keeoing this nation afloat.

Please accept the greetings of the Minister and all who work under him. Citizen -Jrabbit is invited to contact the Minister through usual channels if he/she has any more concerns regarding this aspect of Government.

Signed,

MrWIA.

	21-10-2002 19:06									#4
	Infinite Hides Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Deleting double post.

Oops.

Last edited by -Jrabbit on 21-10-2002 at 19:43

	21-10-2002 19:08									#5
	Infinite Hides Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks for clarifying those points MRWIA. There one area (#2, above) that merits further discussion.

I would like to note that a massive trade program -- especially if we can find "infinite Hides" source and destination cities) can grow our research and cash reserves far more quickly than your current program suggests.

With a shipchain in place, you can actually do single-turn rushbuilds and consistently make a profit (raking in beakers at the same time ). This finances anything you want -- WoWs, infrastructure, etc., even whil celebrating.

This technique is currently in use -- in Republic -- in The Sticky Mouse Academy succession game (Civ2 general forum). The link posted is to my most recently set of turns there. Look earlier in the thread for info on the setup.

Grow population (more virgins! ), accelerate research ), and get rich ) all at the same time. This is why and how, properly managed, Republic can rock!
--------------------
Oh, and while the political correctness is appreciated, please feel free to use the masculine pronoun in your references to me.

Last edited by -Jrabbit on 21-10-2002 at 19:45

	21-10-2002 19:14									#6
	Re: Infinite Hides Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit I would like to note that a massive trade program -- especially if we can find "infinite Hides" source and destination cities) can grow our research and cash reserves far more quickly than your current program suggests.

It may be difficult to determine these "infinte Hides" source and destination cities without having established at least one route to check. But, once we have done so, I will check to see which cities seem to have such a phenomenon occur.

quote: Oh, and while the political correctness is appreciated, please feel free to use the masculine pronoun in your references to me.

I know... I was actually just wording it like some idiotic official document where they don't bother to personalise anything - just type in the name to a pre-formatted document and didn't even bother to check the gender of the recipient.

I actually insist all correspondence to the Ministry comes via my desk first, and I reply in person wherever I can.

Your Humble Servant,

the Undersigned

----------------, Trade Minister for Term ----

	23-10-2002 08:50									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

i'll never cease to be amazed at the detail you place in your orders, MWIA.

	23-10-2002 17:31									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I am equally amazed at the level of detail.

But I have a question. Isn't going to Republic next turn going to completely throw the whole schedule off (for the better, I expect)? Our tech research rate ought to drop down to 9 or 10 turns, our gold should increase (via improved trade and tax efficiency), etc.

The trade detail last time (and this time also) is invaluable and saves much time and thought. I really appreciate it.

	23-10-2002 18:00									#9
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by cavebear going to Republic next turn going to completely throw the whole schedule off (for the better, I expect)?

Actually, I hope we let it get worse -- initially! The biggest benefit of Republic comes from massive celebration
and subsequent city growth. That means jumping our tax distribution largely (maybe 70% initially) to luxuries. Get all our cities to at least size 8, some to size 12, then back off lux stepwise.

The production rate is nice, but the real bonus comes from the bonus population and all the extra workers it brings.

This, combined with the cash generated by a strong Export Trade program, can produce cash for rushbuilding (both camels and infrastructure) and beakers for research, all while the ppl remain blissful.

	23-10-2002 23:05									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

What a full program !
OK, with two remarks :
- caravans dedicaced to WoW may be Food caravan, to spare tradable goods !
- with Rep, even if growing will be slow, Science research will be accelerated.
BTW, I had the think about WLTPD now we are in Rep, but wait to Leo's upgrading to grow in a secure civ !

	24-10-2002 04:52									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I thought that when you used a Caravan to help build a Wonder, the trade good it carried reverted to availability. But I checked on what happened with the 2 Salamanca Caravans that were used in building Mike's. They were carrying Gems and Gold. After Mike's, Salamanca was supplying Coal and Gold.

I never realized that before. I'm certain the manual says the trade goods are returned, but it appears that is not the case (unless by coincedence). I've been wasting some good trade goods for years of play without knowing it.

I won't make that mistake again.

	24-10-2002 05:28									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by JCP BTW, I had the think about WLTPD now we are in Rep,

EDIT: Opps, forgot to put somthing, anyways, what the hell dose "WLTPD" mean????

	24-10-2002 05:35									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"We Love The President Day" (or whatever the current Leader is). It is often shown as "WLTxD" ("x" being King, Consul, President, etc).

	24-10-2002 05:41									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Ok, thanks (you DO learn alot from the demo game, just to think, I got civ2 for Christmas of 2001!)

	24-10-2002 12:04									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanks all, especially for the point about trade goods changing when you use them in a WoW. I didn't know that either.

I didn't take Republic into account here, and it may be a bit too late for me to try and estimate its effects. I trust the president in any changes

The Caravans I have allocated for Leo's will be carrying primarily undemanded goods like Gold. If, once they are used, the good supplied in that city changes, all the more chance it will change to one we can actually use for TRADING!

Thank you -------- for your comments on the Trade Ministry's plan for the year ---- AD/BC.

Your comments have value to us and we invite you to further contribute your thoughts.

Rest assured that all due consideration will be given to the points raised here. In due course. At the appropriate juncture. In the fullness of time. When the stars are right.

Or just for the next turns.

Yours Faithfully, the Undersigned,

Minister of Trade,
------------

	25-10-2002 00:41									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

About re-supply of caravans (after delivery), there is presently instructive threads in the Civ2-Strategy forum, with important constributions from Samson, Solo, Rah, SG...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=64663