21-10-2002 22:54									#1
	Soren: A Question About F11 Screen Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If you could give us a rough (or exact, whatever you prefer ) equation on how Productivity and GNP is calculated, I would appreciate it. There's a lot of speculation on what they mean, but I don't think anyone here knows for sure.

	21-10-2002 23:04									#2
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Well... some educated guess from someone who isn't sure: productivity is the total amount of unwasted shields in all your cities. GNP is the total amount uncorrupted commerce

DeepO

	21-10-2002 23:54									#3
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I do not know, I just look at the screen, and try and see if I am number one, if not, well, then I must be losing.
If I am winning, then I will probably have someone in the computer AI wanting to take me to task.

	22-10-2002 00:14									#4
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I second that Trip! I always wanted to know what they mean!

Soren?

So long...

	22-10-2002 00:56									#5
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I don't care about that information. For me, it is enough to know that I'm number one or not. If Civ3 had more depth to its economic simulation, I'd be interested to know more things about that screen.

	22-10-2002 17:09									#6
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I have to agree with what has been said here, if the F11 screen would indicate who is first when you are second, it would be a lot more helpful.

BTW, the production formula I used wasn't right, it has to be something else. Possibly it is the (unwasted) total of all your cities, added with the number of mines in your empire (that was true in my last game, at least up until the point where I couldn't easily count it anymore). The GNP seems to hold up, though. That is the total amount of uncorrupted commerce.

DeepO

	22-10-2002 18:26									#7
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quote: GNP is the total amount uncorrupted commerce

I agree if by "total amount of commerce" you mean total commerce that remains after science and luxury expenditures are deducted. I don't even know why is it called GNP ???

	22-10-2002 18:33									#8
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Btw, I agree that Firaxis could give us an exact expanation of how these are calculated.

It would be also very useful to know who is No1., No.2, etc.

	22-10-2002 18:35									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Possibly it is the (unwasted) total of all your cities, added with the number of mines in your empire (that was true in my last game, at least up until the point where I couldn't easily count it anymore). DeepO

How about productivity=total civ production/total nr. of tiles within your borders or total civ production/nr. of cities? Just a guess.

	22-10-2002 19:11									#10
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For me GNP is the total income: if your total income is 3657 gold, your GNP will be 3657 millions. Compare the figures between the Domestic Advisor screen and the F11 screen.

	22-10-2002 19:12									#11
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Tiberius, I indeed wanted to say the total amount of gold you produce in your empire at that turn....

As to the tiles: that didn't hold for last game, I had way more tiles, so my production should have been a lot lower. It was already lower then just counting the shields, something has to modify it upwards.

DeepO

	22-10-2002 19:13									#12
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Damn.. crossposted. Nym, that's most likely the right thing... I have to check it when I get home

DeepO

	22-10-2002 19:16									#13
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Edited: Ahh, some crossposting.

DeepO: Exactly, total amount of gold, not commerce. The total amount of commerce is divided in GNP, science and luxury, with the F1 sliders.

Nym: Right, but what do you mean by "total income" ? If by total income you mean total gold, then it's correct.

Last edited by Tiberius on 22-10-2002 at 19:25

	22-10-2002 19:42									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Edited: Ahh, some crossposting. DeepO: Exactly, total amount of gold, not commerce. The total amount of commerce is divided in GNP, science and luxury, with the F1 sliders. Nym: Right, but what do you mean by "total income" ? If by total income you mean total gold, then it's correct.

What I called total income is in fact the total income from cities (top left corner of the Domestic Advisor ). If I am correct, this value is used for GNP.

	22-10-2002 19:52									#15
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Hmm, I think you are right. I suppose I was talking about civ2.

GNP=total income, then.

PS Is it so difficult to write a page in the civilopedia to explain?

	23-10-2002 01:54									#16
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Cripes, you're right... GNP is the amount of cash you get per turn. Not sure how I missed that one.

That still leaves productivity... C'mon Soren...

Also, what does it mean if the value is in blue, instead of black?

	23-10-2002 02:02									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Cripes, you're right... GNP is the amount of cash you get per turn. Not sure how I missed that one. That still leaves productivity... C'mon Soren... Also, what does it mean if the value is in blue, instead of black?

Rank number 1 of all civs gets blue. Rank of 2 or lower gets black.

Catt

	23-10-2002 02:05									#18
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Of civs you have contact with or what? 'Cause I could have sworn while testing my scenario a lot of countries had their values blue (and they were all quite different)...

	23-10-2002 02:09									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Of civs you have contact with or what? 'Cause I could have sworn while testing my scenario a lot of countries had their values blue (and they were all quite different)...

Ah . . . I've never tested it by looking at different civs in the same game through the editor or a saved game editor.

But I've noticed that when I rank number 1 it is blue, otherwise, black. I've also noticed that it has to be all civs (not just known) since I have ranked lower than the number of civs with whom I have contact. I've also noticed that a tie still counts as first place and so could be 1 (and blue) for many civs at the same time (pollution, for instance).

Catt

	23-10-2002 02:24									#20
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The scenario I'm currently working on... Prussia is on the left, France on the right, nothing changed between loading the scenario for each country.

Attachment: prussiavsfrance.jpg
This has been downloaded 79 time(s).

	23-10-2002 02:26									#21
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Yes because at the start all have the same pollution level.

	23-10-2002 02:32									#22
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And Mfg. Goods and Productivity?

	23-10-2002 02:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Trip The scenario I'm currently working on... Prussia is on the left, France on the right, nothing changed between loading the scenario for each country.

Do France and Prussia have contact? How many civs? I see that Prussia ranks 15th in one category, so either it has contact with at least 14 other civs, or the rankings take into account unknown civs as well. And yet how could the GNP and Manufacturing ranks be "1" for each when the output is so different?

Despite the questions raised by your screenshots, notice that the Rank #1's are in blue and the rank #2 or lower are in black .

Catt

	23-10-2002 02:36									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Catt Do France and Prussia have contact? How many civs? I see that Prussia ranks 15th in one category, so either it has contact with at least 14 other civs, or the rankings take into account unknown civs as well. And yet how could the GNP and Manufacturing ranks be "1" for each when the output is so different?

15 civs, none of them have contact with each other.

quote: Despite the questions raised by your screenshots, notice that the Rank #1's are in blue and the rank #2 or lower are in black .

	23-10-2002 04:04									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Trip And Mfg. Goods and Productivity?

Merely saying that you could all be rank #1 in pollution for a while as it will be 0 for all for some time. Any value that is the same for more than one civ can have the same ranking.

	23-10-2002 06:43									#26
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In my experience, Productivity was net commerce+net shields. Whether it's for the entire empire or for your cities averaged, I'm not sure (since I only noticed it when playing an OCC game)...

	23-10-2002 07:45									#27
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Vlad, your avatar reminds me of one of the anti heroes in an early Superman movie.

	23-10-2002 10:33									#28
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Vlad, your avatar reminds me of one of the anti heroes in an early Superman movie.

It was I think.


It's wicked that one nation dominates in something and they are both ranked 1