22-10-2002 23:15									#1
	Why do they hate me? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Civs that I repeatedly trade with, have embassies with, have never fought against, and have even repeatedly given gifts of luxuries and resources are scowling at me and are "furious" with me. I have the highest score on a Regent level game, are they just jealous?

The only "bad" thing I did was wipe the Egyptians off of my island early in the game (they found a home elsewhere), but its now 1960 and they all hate me WHY? I know they'll vote for someone else at the first UN election -they'll probably vote for the Japanese guy, who keeps attacking everyone.

	22-10-2002 23:23									#2
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because you're numero uno they'll all dislike you. goes with the territory sadly. best way to deal with it is to wipe them out, all of them

	22-10-2002 23:36									#3
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only reason I could think of why besides what demerzel said was if you did something bad enough to get a rep hit or two during your egyptian campaign.

otherwise, they just hate you... but at least they respect you.

	22-10-2002 23:43									#4
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I have a hard time understanding the diplomacy too. I'm currently playing a game at Warlord level as Egypt where I got way ahead of everyone early on but to keep the other civs competitive I've been regularly trading science with them for ridiculous things like a map or very little money - sometimes just as gifts. Well, they're all always either annoyed or furious with me. America is on a small island continent between me and the Aztecs and Iroquois. Lincoln has a couple of cities on the Aztec/Iroquois continent. At one point he asked for a military protection pact with me and I agreed since I don't want either the Aztecs or Iroquois to take the American territory. Ok so I figured I'd move troops close to the two American cities on the Aztec/Iroquois continent so I can respond quickly if these are attacked. I have a right of passage agreement with the Americans also so I didn't think this was a problem. At one point the Aztecs and Iroquois went at it and I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't try to get those American cities was because I had my troops nearby and they didn't want to fight Egypt. Fine so I figure Lincoln has to at least be relieved that we have the military protection pact because his military would not stand a chance against either the Aztecs or Iroquois. Then to my surprise - next turn the mpp ends and he does not want to renew it - will only do so if I give him two science advances and some money. Forget that. I tell him fine - forget the mpp. Couple of turns later the Iroquois take his two cities and right now they're eyeing his island. One stupid AND ungrateful leader IMO.

In another game I was playing a couple of weeks ago I kept helping the Zulu, giving them money and science so they could stay competitive with Persia whom they shared a continent with. Well - Shaka was always annoyed with me and eventually ended up betraying me and allying himself with the French when they declared war against me (I was playing as Germany in that game). I built ICBMs in that game SPECIFICALLY so I could nuke the heck out of what the Persians had left of Shaka JUST before winning the space race.

I think it's pretty much impossible to establish a really good relationship with any other civ in the game when you're playing the AI. No matter how honest and helpful and non-aggressive you are, they'll be annoyed or furious with you and may eventually turn on you.

Lunacy

	22-10-2002 23:45									#5
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I mean its like:

me:
"Here you go for the third time, take these gems, dyes, and horses, on me."

Greeks, Babylonians, Persians, Aztecs:
"Thanks @sshole, and don't forget to come back in 20 turns or we'll declare war on your @ss even though we wouldn't stand a chance"

	23-10-2002 00:27									#6
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quote: Originally posted by shclo I mean its like: me: "Here you go for the third time, take these gems, dyes, and horses, on me." Greeks, Babylonians, Persians, Aztecs: "Thanks @sshole, and don't forget to come back in 20 turns or we'll declare war on your @ss even though we wouldn't stand a chance"

i totally know what you mean. if somebody came to me and went, "here - i offer electronics and 500 gold as a token of goodwill," i don't think i'd furiously say "are you quite finished? i don't have all day. i'm a busy leader."

i think the best thing to do in this situation is to get furious right back and say "fine, you ungrateful slime! @#$% you!" and declare a massive war against them. it makes me mad when they get all uppity like that, and it's very satisfying to wipe them out after theie rude behavior.

a few serious observations on the manic depressive mood swings of the other leaders:

- when you're the strongest, they all hate you and there's nothing you can do about it. disband some military units or something if you want to get back on par with the other civs. you could also give away useless cities so you wouldn't have as much land.
- you might want to move up to monarch level if you're having a pretty easy time on regent. i moved up, and my games usually stay reasonably competitive right up until the modern era. even though i'm generally the tech leader and have a strong military compared to everyone else, i'm not SO far ahead that everyone hates me. in fact, they're usually polite to me.
- if they have wines or something to trade you and you don't trade with them, they'll be pissed. i'm cnostantly seeing the other civs go from "annoyed" before we make the deal to "polite" afterwards.
- rather than give them gifts, i find that it's better diplomacy-wise for you to offer what you want to give (say a couple techs to help them out), and then let them offer their lame world map or whatever. accept the deal on THEIR terms, and it seems like they'd be more likely to stay cool with you (so instead of feeling like they're just getting a handout, they think they're really pulling one over on you, and will be eager to do business with you again).

i guess you have to think about how they feel. i mean, you're basically the leader of the civilized world. their military sucks compared to yours, their technology sucks compared to yours, even when they DO get tech, they don't have the money or resources to build better units or upgrade their military. if they want oil or furs, they have to go begging to you. they want their civ to be powerful and cool like yours, but they're just too dumb. they're jealous of your wellbeing, and how all your little citizens run around in silk tunics and have fun flying cars when they dress in rags and trudge through the dirt. and they're proud - they don't like accepting your handouts even though that's the only way they could ever hope to get back on track. you're probably draining their financial reserves by chargin premium prices on trade goods, so they can't even research. that's why they hate you.

not that i feel sorry for them. i'm a firm believer in darwin's theory. go scour them from the face of the earth!

p.s. i don't really think the AI has feelings, but i wouldn't be surprised if they were programmed to have some degree of "pride."

	23-10-2002 00:50									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Bella Hella i guess you have to think about how they feel. i mean, you're basically the leader of the civilized world. their military sucks compared to yours, their technology sucks compared to yours, even when they DO get tech, they don't have the money or resources to build better units or upgrade their military. if they want oil or furs, they have to go begging to you. they want their civ to be powerful and cool like yours, but they're just too dumb. they're jealous of your wellbeing, and how all your little citizens run around in silk tunics and have fun flying cars when they dress in rags and trudge through the dirt. and they're proud - they don't like accepting your handouts even though that's the only way they could ever hope to get back on track. you're probably draining their financial reserves by chargin premium prices on trade goods, so they can't even research. that's why they hate you.

You're talking about the game, right?

Because it seems frightening close to what is happpening in the real world.

	23-10-2002 01:02									#8
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all except for the silk tunics and fun flying cars... what a jip

	23-10-2002 01:20									#9
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I understand exactly what you mean. In my games I usually have 2 or 3 close allies the whole game with the rest of the world (the other 12-13 civs) in a constant state of Annoyed/Furious regardless of what I do. The AI is seemingly just programmed to be extra aggressive to whomever is #1.

quote: i guess you have to think about how they feel. i mean, you're basically the leader of the civilized world. their military sucks compared to yours, their technology sucks compared to yours, even when they DO get tech, they don't have the money or resources to build better units or upgrade their military. if they want oil or furs, they have to go begging to you. they want their civ to be powerful and cool like yours, but they're just too dumb. they're jealous of your wellbeing, and how all your little citizens run around in silk tunics and have fun flying cars when they dress in rags and trudge through the dirt. and they're proud - they don't like accepting your handouts even though that's the only way they could ever hope to get back on track. you're probably draining their financial reserves by chargin premium prices on trade goods, so they can't even research. that's why they hate you.

Heh.

	23-10-2002 01:49									#10
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The top dog is always hated.

Attacking another civ (Egypt in this case) will cause a small attitude adjustment (negative) on the part of the other civs.

Any reputation hit you took (did you break any treaties, use a sneak attack or RoP violation?) will also adversely effect their attitudes.

Me, I gave up long ago trying to placate the envious AI. Screw 'em, says I, and I builds me up a big military and I kicks the crap outta them, I does. Their citizens will either become my citizens (fully equipped with silk tunics and flying cars) or slaves who clean my pollution.

-Arrian

	23-10-2002 02:07									#11
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Man if you do not like they way they act when you are top dog, try it when they are top dog.

	23-10-2002 08:05									#12
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While you are in an Alliance or MPP with them they will like you much better. Of course, it will revert as soon as it is over.

	23-10-2002 09:11									#13
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The AI hates you?

I Hate you.








What I hate is when I have destroyed a civ, there is a settler on a galley someplace or they have a one city island and they still refuse to give me all their techs. At which point, I just have them line up against the wall, which happened to Joan in a recent game. I don't feel sorry for her, the whore.

	23-10-2002 09:15									#14
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'tis indeed annoying that in the final stages of a war you have the ability to crush another civ like a bug but they still refuse to give you some techs or cities for peace. normally i just wipe them all out as a penalty.