23-10-2002 02:01									#1
	What victory condition should we persue? Inflate your Upload Space

Knowing which victory condition we're persuing should help guide our strategy.

Diplomatic - Our goal is Fission, so we build the U.N. We should persue tech in the relatively short term, and eventually. make friends.

Spaceship - Longer term tech.

Cultural - Take alot of land & rush build Temples and Caths at least through 900 AD. Consder Despotism and Communism to pop rush.

It would be helpful to know what our cultural value is now.

Domination/Conquest Take lotsa land (& go Commie)

	23-10-2002 02:11									#2
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Hey!!!

What about timeline scoring!!!

(just kidding!!!)

Personally, I would like to see a Space Race. Diplomatic ends the game too quickly (unless we want to end it to get the PTW game going quicker?) I think it is really too late for Cultural, and I think going for a pure military victory would only alienate some of the players.

Space race will provide plenty of builder and warmonger friendly situations, and would therefore be the best to keep participation high. Again, this is my opinion.

	23-10-2002 02:34									#3
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I say lets go spaceship. I agree with unorthodox, Spaceship will will drive us on all fronts. We will need war, tech and diplomatic savy to get in head, stay in head and out produce the emperor AI.

We still MUST build the UN to filibuster
Mss

	23-10-2002 02:49									#4
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Spaceship, spaceship, a million times spaceship. If you really want to go political or cultural, but the DIA wants Spaceship first, then other peaceful stuff, and then conquest\domination.
The Science department wouldn't mind a spaceship goal either.
For once, it looks like the hippies are winning

	23-10-2002 02:52									#5
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Very early results are in, Spaceship 6, everything else 0, corruption is high, if these contunue, we should build science and tech inprovements in our less corrupt cities and those cities that will be helped in the building of the Palace, FP, or transition to Democracy, and workers or marketplaces, court houses etc in others.

Of course wars for resources and to beat up our closest competion are OK, but we really don't need territory.

Last edited by realpolitic on 23-10-2002 at 03:04

	23-10-2002 03:10									#6
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Spaceship. It's just really cool. Besides, it's the only one with the cool cinematic at the end

	23-10-2002 04:20									#7
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Joining the consensus here: shoot for the stars.
Mainly because I feel I've learned how to ramp up a conquest victory, but have a lot more to learn about becoming technological leader and launching the space ship.

	23-10-2002 04:24									#8
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Domination, it is our best hope.
Cultural is impossible at this point.
Diplomatic is too hard with our foreign policy.
Spacerace would take too long.
Conquest is too hard.

	23-10-2002 04:32									#9
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I agree that the space race is a good all-around bet, since it allows our technology to prosper, our military to continue to dominate, and keeps our diplomatic game still fresh.

I was going for domination myself. no hippies allowed in my office. just kidding.

	23-10-2002 06:44									#10
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Space race or domination.

Cultural is probably out of the question at this point, Conquest would take too much effort, and given our actions to date, Diplo is largely out of the question.

	23-10-2002 15:43									#11
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May we be the first to send a yellowish, slightly curved rocket into space, for the glory of Apolyton and the Great Banana!

	23-10-2002 16:48									#12
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Even domination would get incredibly boring in this setting. I only finish about 1/3 of my ‘conquest oriented games’ because it gets so dull even with just me playing.

Diplomatic might not be all that easy, most the AIs don’t think very fondly of us, and we would have to put allot of effort into fixing up or diplomatic situation. Also if we hit that button to vote for a diplomatic victor we could lose right there… we could always go back to win anther way but we’ll know in our hearts that we in fact lost .

	23-10-2002 17:17									#13
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Spaceship, and our military works in nicely with that as in:
Our rivals can't build spaceship if they're not there anymore. Basically, the military continues to do the fine job it's been doing (but leave in a large peace period soon so we can build factories instead of worrying about cavalry) and then by the time spacerace comes around there's much less competition on the building time although we still need to devote our best production to it.

Satisfies both warmongers and builders.
However, we still MUST build the Un to prevent any other AI from building it and voting.

	23-10-2002 20:53									#14
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Here's one thing to consider: To win, you must NOT lose.

We must build the UN so that they'll be no votes. (Nobody really likes us, and so if there is a UN vote, we lose.)

I highly dought it's possible for us to achieve a cultural victory considering that we had to fight early wars and were late getting culture improvements. It's more likely that we'll need to increase our culture just to prevent one of the AIs from winning via this.

To the one person currently voting for Conquest, how do you propose to do this without triguring a domination victory?

In my estimation if we get complete control of the main contienant, we win via domination as soon as our cultural boundaries expand to fill in the holes.

Voted for Spaceship. One of the things that makes Space Ship easier to build is having a few highly productive cities near the Palace & Forbidden Palace and others that can build up enough military units to discourage the AI from attacking. For this purpose, we should annex France when Aggie is ready and later on when we have Calvary (or Germany invades England whichever is first) annex England.

	23-10-2002 21:31									#15
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Diplomatic. Our foreign department is excelent. It will end sooner than with spaceship, providing a 2-3 month early jump for PtW start. Cultural is virtually impossible at this point. Conquest/domination is too easy as we are on the same land mass. Time/score... who wants to wait.

I vote diplomatic.

	23-10-2002 23:06									#16
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Although I voted spaceship, diplomatic would also be fine with me. I just wonder how we can pull it off at this point, since we have a very bloodthirsty history.

	23-10-2002 23:47									#17
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I think that trying to win diplomatcy could horribly back fire against us with all the AIs voting in droves for the other canidate.

	23-10-2002 23:59									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Although I voted spaceship, diplomatic would also be fine with me. I just wonder how we can pull it off at this point, since we have a very bloodthirsty history.

Trade Trade Trade and a few gifts to boot.

So far Ameica is gone.
Persia will soon be gone. Thanks to the Aztecs.
France should be gone soon as well. I hope.

Germany is the only one we have any bad blood with so far.

If we behave ourselves by maintaining a SPOTLESS reputation, minimize future conflicts to defensive (eliminate France, however) and be a generally good neighbor, we can easily win diplomaticly.

MPPS and aliances help the AI attitude torwards us as well.

A Diplomatic win is still very possible.

Mss

	24-10-2002 01:06									#19
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ManicStarSeed, we have been renegoating peace with most of the AIs on this contentant every 20 turns.

	24-10-2002 01:42									#20
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IF we did decide to go Diplomatic, one of the best ways to makes friends is MPPs and RoP agreements. I'm not very fond of these agreements otherwise, but if it came down to us being clearly on top of the world and ready to start a new Dem Game (PtW Dem Game?), we could butter up all our neighbors by opening our borders and promising to protect them all.

We just would have to hope that they didn't go to war and drag us into it.

--Togas

	24-10-2002 02:15									#21
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True, if our goal is to get it over quick and make the PTW game, Diplomatic is the way to go.

	24-10-2002 02:33									#22
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I'm beginning to agree with you people. We should pick the fastest route to victory because our time is short.

	24-10-2002 03:01									#23
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It's too bad this isn't a multi-option poll (and too bad I was impatient and voted immediately ). I would have voted for diplomatic. It's faster than spaceship, and it might give us a challenge - something a lot of people seem to be looking for now that we're #1.

	24-10-2002 04:11									#24
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Well i usually get a diplomatic or spaceship victory. I think a spaceship is most likely but I'd take diplomatic. though it would suck to loose the vote. Either way we need to get UN to prevent the diplomatic votes being done without our consent.
Aggie

	24-10-2002 04:24									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Diplomatic. Our foreign department is excelent. It will end sooner than with spaceship, providing a 2-3 month early jump for PtW start. Cultural is virtually impossible at this point. Conquest/domination is too easy as we are on the same land mass. Time/score... who wants to wait. I vote diplomatic.

Back before our outrageous attack on America, our foreign department was excelent.

Now, we have willingly declared war twice, and will do so again. No nation in their right mind will elect us in the UN.

Spaceship.

	24-10-2002 05:41									#26
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Hey!!! What about timeline scoring!!! (just kidding!!!) Personally, I would like to see a Space Race. Diplomatic ends the game too quickly (unless we want to end it to get the PTW game going quicker?) I think it is really too late for Cultural, and I think going for a pure military victory would only alienate some of the players. Space race will provide plenty of builder and warmonger friendly situations, and would therefore be the best to keep participation high. Again, this is my opinion.

Hmmm...I hate to agree with him, but he's right on this one.

	24-10-2002 06:50									#27
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Ninot we can win the UN vote still, only persia and france are sure to go against us(and it is my policy to eliminate these kind of countries before the election). If as usual MPP leads to a big war between powers in the industrial age we can then use our science advantage to give gifts(since we will be in demo they'll end up in comm) and additioanlly most likely the other contender will have fought several of the other nations so they will either abstain or vote with us.
Aggie

	24-10-2002 06:54									#28
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I have found that the best way to win the game with the UN is simply to sign a bunch of MPPs the same turn as the vote. It works nearly every time.

	24-10-2002 21:04									#29
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quote: Originally posted by jdjdjd Hmmm...I hate to agree with him, but he's right on this one.

What exactly is wrong with agreeing with me?

	24-10-2002 21:29									#30
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I see I have swayed many over into the diplomatic camp, keeping the space race open as possibilities. Glad to see it. I think that that is the way to go still.