23-10-2002 17:51									#1
	ww2 philippine invasion scenario Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

iīm currently working on a ww2 scenario about the invasion of the phillippine isles by the japanese forces in 1941/42.

this is my first scenario iīm going to present in the web, so get your expextations together.

first screenshots will be posted within the next days (i hope to publish the first takes within the next 2-3 days).

if there are any comments on the topic you may post it somewhere here.


greetings

	24-10-2002 01:11									#2
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I hope you're making good use of all the units I made for Kyokujitsu

	24-10-2002 04:08									#3
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I can't wait!

*resists urge to say something about returning*

	24-10-2002 06:13									#4
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Wow, this could make for a fantastic scenario Are you covering the invasion of the entire Philipines, or just Luzon? Personally, I'd only cover Luzon as this was the only area where the US had enough forces to offer any kind of prolonged resistance. Indeed, if 'Dug-Out Doug' hadn't screwed up and deployed his forces for coast defence, the US forces could have held out well into 1942.

If you're interested, the US Army's excelent Centre for Militay History Website as an excelent article at: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/pi/PI.htm

The West Point map page at: http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/dh...tlas%20Page.htm should also prove useful.

	24-10-2002 08:23									#5
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Case:
you really think they could have held out that long with no supplies coming in from the states? I think the Japanese would have just made their one large invasion, and when the US forces come out to fight, the japanese would land some troops in the rear and wreck havok.

So is the is scenario going to be PBEM? Or is there finally a single player scenario coming out? What civ is playable? It would almost have to be Japan unless you really know your stuff and can make the AI invade properly. The US would be challenging IF you can make the Japanese work right.

	24-10-2002 10:21									#6
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower Case: you really think they could have held out that long with no supplies coming in from the states? I think the Japanese would have just made their one large invasion, and when the US forces come out to fight, the japanese would land some troops in the rear and wreck havok.

Yeah I do. Most military historians believe that if Macarthur had stuck to his original plan of retreating to Bataan at the first sign of trouble then the US/Philippino forces could have held out for a hell of a lot longer then they did.

By abandoning this plan in favour of a more agressive defence of central Luzon, MacArthur's forces were first bashed up by the qualitatively [but not quantitatively] superior Japanese forces, and then lost most of their huge stockpile of supplies when Macarthur failed to move them from Manilla to Bataan as had been originally planned.

BTW, MacArthur earned the Congressional Medal of Honour for his 'defence' of the Philippines

	24-10-2002 15:20									#7
	whatever you mean ... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

iīm currently painting a satisfying map but i had to restart designing some times īcause i wasnīt content about the map. the one iīv now seems to be pretty acceptable (not very good, but remember: iīm still working on it.)

now iīv got - just like said - an acceptable base for further map marking. if you want i may post a little screenshot of it here.

iīm just thinking about creating not only the US and the japanese forces but also the philippine "army". what do think? this a great idea or shall i grant sole command to gen. macarthur?


i think gen. macarthur should have prepared "his" philippine allies with heavier equipment but iīm quite sure he couldnīt hold out really much longer because the japanese would have brought reenforcements to the philippines because leaving the isles under american control could not have been acceptable (not only under military aspects).


best wishes

	24-10-2002 19:37									#8
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MacA was the leader of the Us/Phillipino forces, he gaves orders to the US troops just the same way as he gave orders to the phillipinos. I would imagine that if the two were seperated,the two different armies would just get in each others way, and the AI will try and break the alliance, make demands, and generally be really stupid if you are america and the computer controls the phillipine army.

	24-10-2002 20:15									#9
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sure, you are completely right about macarthurīs command position.

but the hotseat mode could solve this problem (though then it has to befocused only on the japanese for the human player). i think there will be only 2 players, the us/filipino forces and on the other side the japanese 14th army, invading the philippines.

iīm currently about designing the units and the terrains for this battle. the terrain is nearly finished and iīm going to try to create lots of different units for either side.

	25-10-2002 04:03									#10
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But with hotseat you get a "black out" in MGE

Also the Filipino and US forces were working nearly as one force under MacArthur and in the 30s MacArthur was field marshal of the Filipino Army IIRC so I don't see any purpose in having 2 separate civs

	25-10-2002 05:13									#11
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I agree with ANZAC - the US and Philippino armies fought side by side, often in combined units.

quote: think gen. macarthur should have prepared "his" philippine allies with heavier equipment but iīm quite sure he couldnīt hold out really much longer because the japanese would have brought reenforcements to the philippines because leaving the isles under american control could not have been acceptable (not only under military aspects).

Macarthur gave the Philippinos the best that he had (not that that's saying much!). Given that the bashed up and hungy US/PI force managed to hold out on Bataan untill the Japanese brought in reinforcements from Malaya, I'd say that if Macarthur had withdrawn in good order, he could have held Battan, and thus the vital entrance to Manilla Bay, for a very long time. This would have greatly disrupted Japanese plans, and would have shortened the war.

	25-10-2002 06:49									#12
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with hotseat, you still can't have US forces use the same road as the Philopino Army, combine them into one civ

	25-10-2002 23:31									#13
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thanx for your tips. iīm going to combine macīs forces into one US/philippino army.

now iīm also going to tell you that you have to wait for another 1-2 days for the first screenshots because i had a lot of work to for my university but i guess tomorrow evening (cet) thereīll be some gfx.

	27-10-2002 00:16									#14
	first look on some units Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

good evening,

down there should be some units iīm going to use in my scenario.

shown are (from left):
1. US drill instructor to the philippine army
2. US infantry
3. mg position
4. US infantry
5. philippine scout division


2 other things:
thereīll be some more units on sunday 27 (tomorrow).

what do you think of this units? you may post your opinion here or e-mail me (steph_sander@hotmail.com).

thanx

Attachment: screenshot1.jpg
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	27-10-2002 01:23									#15
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Very nice - only could you post them original size in .gif form? Thanks!

	27-10-2002 03:51									#16
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Those are great looking units

	27-10-2002 13:29									#17
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down there you may see a screenshot/preview of the map iīm going to use. itīs a 50x200 map that iīve designed on my own. itīs been a lot of work but iīm now moretheless satisfied.

Attachment: screenshot2.jpg
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	27-10-2002 19:11									#18
	some more units Support Apolyton

now iīve already 27 units to populate the beautiful philippine archipelago.

some of īem you already know but there are some new oneīs iīve created today so far.

the "OLD" ones:

US Drill Instructor, Infantry, MG Position, Infantry Philippine Scout Division;

NEW!!!

Supply Truck, US Jeep, Philippine Recruit (the one the drill instructor is there for), MG Infantry;
M2A1 Medium Tank, M3 Grant Medium Tank, P40-B Warhawk Fighter, P38-C Lightning Fighter, US Light Field Artillery, PBY Catalina, US Coast Guard, US Coast Patrol, IJN Congo Battleship;
IJN Haruna Battleship, IJN Cruiser, IJN Destroyer, IJN Frigate, IJN Troop Transport, Infantry, Imperial Marine, Type 95-2 Light Tank, Type 97-1 Medium Tank;


you may notify that today iīve been able to post the units as a *.gif file as requested. the only thing i recommend is that you may contact me if you use īem. e-mail me that i send you the artistic credits because - as you may have seen - some of the units are taken from other designers.

mailto: steph_sander@hotmail.com


thanx


Sleep my sons, your duty done ...
for freedomīs light has come.
sleep in the silent depths of the sea
or in your bed of hallowed sod.
until you hear at dawn
the low clear reveille of God.

* the poet is unknown; itīs inscribed on the monument to the Pacific War Dead, in Corregidor, Philippines.

Attachment: units.gif
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	30-10-2002 02:57									#19
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I drew some US naval fighters after I read this, plus a Val and a tomahawk at: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...094#post1406094
I am going to work on a Brewster Buffalo F2A tonight. What do you think?

	30-10-2002 05:00									#20
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quote: IJN Congo Battleship

Actually the ships were the Kongo class

BTW, are you sure that the US deployed M3-Grant/Lees and P-38s to the Phillipines? I thought that the best that they had was M-3 Stuarts and P-40s...

	30-10-2002 11:04									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Case BTW, are you sure that the US deployed M3-Grant/Lees and P-38s to the Phillipines? I thought that the best that they had was M-3 Stuarts and P-40s...

P-38s weren't in operational status before 1942, so I highly doubt they were represented in the phillipines during the Japanese invasion. However they did rack up an impressive kill count during the Us invasion of the phillipines in 1944.

	30-10-2002 11:32									#22
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I just found an online version of the full US offical history of the fall of the Philippines. Check it out at: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-P-PI/

	30-10-2002 19:41									#23
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first of all 2 things mentioned by Case

quote: Actually the ships were Kongo class

thanx to case. after i had posted the units sample i took a look into some history books and found out - just as you mentioned - that the Congo and Haruna battleships were sister ships of the same - Congo - class.

quote: BTW, are you sure that the US deployed M3-Grant/Lees and P38s to the Philippines?

by the way, iīm not really sure as hell that the US deployed these kinds of war equipment to the philippines but on the other hand i must confess i donīt exactly know about this facts.
i wouldnīt build īem into the scenario but i donīt exactly know about this aspect. if you know better let me know and iīll remove these tanks/planes from the philippines.


don there you may admire the units iīm going to use in ma scenario.the us artillery and the japanese mortar units will only be able to destroy targets some distance away to make it more realistic. the rest will be explained in the game concept of the scenario.


thatīs it for now

	30-10-2002 19:44									#24
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thanx to H Tower. i wonīt use the P38s in my scenario.
i also must confess i havenīt read your post before i posted the rest of the units.

	31-10-2002 02:36									#25
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two types of japanese subs? i also don't see any US sub among the units. I think the US used porpoise class submarines successfully in the phillipine area up until the fall of correigdor.

an interesting event could be every 3 turns or so that a US sub would surface with much needed supplies (50gold) for MacArthurs defence of the phillipines. it would end with the fall of bataan or correigdor or a MacA unit being killed

	31-10-2002 04:33									#26
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What a great idea for a scenario!Is the second Japanese fighter (next to the Zero) a Ki 43 Hayabusha or an A5M "Claude"?

	31-10-2002 05:31									#27
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse thanx to case. after i had posted the units sample i took a look into some history books and found out - just as you mentioned - that the Congo and Haruna battleships were sister ships of the same - Congo - class.

Actually, I was pointing out the the ship class is the Kongo class, not the Congo class. I think that they were named after some area of Japan or an old admiral, and not the African river

quote: I wouldnīt build īem into the scenario but i donīt exactly know about this aspect. if you know better let me know and iīll remove these tanks/planes from the philippines.

If you look through the offical history I posted, there appears to be a chapter of the state of the American forces in the Philippines before the Japanese invasion. It should have the definitive answer on whether there were Grants in the Philippines or not.

	31-10-2002 13:32									#28
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hello folks ....

today iīve got a list of the units for you.

to tanelorn: 1st thank you for letting me use your units; 2nd: the fighter next to the Zero is a K-43-Hayabusha;

to H Tower: there arenīt 2 kinds of japanese subs. the left one is an american submarine.

to case: i took a certain number of looks to the page you presented to me but i couldnīt figure out wether the US used some Grants or not. i will leave them out. as the P38.


as you may have guessed, the P38 was replaced by a US 75mm Anti tank Gun

i also thought of creating a macarthur unit for the US/Philippino Forces but than i decided to leave his unit out. but the thought of the sub carrying supplies to Bataan/Corregidor is not bad ......


to tanelorn: let me add one other thing at least: iīm looking forward to create an epic scenarion of one of the turning points in the pacific theatre: the battle of Guadalcanal during my x-mas holidays. may i recall then to use some of your beautiful planes for this gigantic battle?!

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	01-11-2002 03:50									#29
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse as you may have guessed, the P38 was replaced by a US 75mm Anti tank Gun

Er, the 75mm wasn't used by the US untill late 1942/3, and I doubt that any of them were ever sent to the Pacific. In the Philippines the US army had 37mm guns and the Marines had some wierd 20mm combined Anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns (please don't ask me how I know this stuff - I just do )

	01-11-2002 04:28									#30
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Jim: have you seen some of the Japanese units made by GuKGuk? They really might work. Also I Jimmywax has made a Grant which could work. These should be in the graphics thread, but I also will post them on my site @ http://on.to/civ2