24-10-2002 23:44									#1
	Is there interest in an Environmental protection group? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Simple enough.

Is anyone interested in starting a group for environmental protection.

Goals would be to propose reserves, national parks, stuff like that, and oppose any developement beyond roads within these sanctuaries.

Unless we act soon, there will be little jungle left to save.

	25-10-2002 00:02									#2
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I might be.

From the stand point of population. I am dead set against hospitals ( and sanitation) until we are close to ecology and teh willingness for building mass tranit systems. If we are not careful, we will wind up wastinfg alot of time and workers cleaning up glowing goo. Factories do not add too much polution but coal plants kill us with pollution.

Now as for junjles and such, does anyone know if by clearing jungle from, say, a rubber tile, wheather it would appear or not when we discover replacable parts? That would be the clincher for me.
Mss

	25-10-2002 00:04									#3
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Humm.. I wonder how many acres of Jungle the "Jungle Gazette uses"? I suppose it gets its name from the precious natural resource that it is destroying. We are destroying our beautiful jungles for a mere periodical! Not even a permanent book.

Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

	25-10-2002 00:16									#4
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We are an industrious civilization... our workers have enough efficiency, and we have the capacity to build enough of them, that the population pollution from building hospitals will be easily managable.

Besides, these "environmentalists" aren't seriously going to lobby against the humanitarian course of building hospitals and actually SUPPORT our population continuing to be plagued (pun intended) by horrendous diseases!?

The truly humanitarian thing to do would be to SUPPORT the building of hospitals and to begin the crusade to eradicate various diseases which have long plagued mankind! Let these "environmentalists" be anti-humanitarian if they dare...

	25-10-2002 00:27									#5
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I'm all for preserving jungles and forests and mountains that are outside of our city radius'. As for jungle/swamp land within our city radius', they're festering disease ridden wastelands that need to be cleared out for the good of our people.

But I'm with you on the coal plants.

--Togas

	25-10-2002 00:41									#6
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This smells of liberal, count me in

	25-10-2002 00:45									#7
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IMHO:

All Jungle inside all city raidius will evenually need cleared.

All cities that could grow past 12 will evenuaally need Hospitals.

All forests on plains inside all city raidus need cleared quickly.

Forests over unshielded grassland inside city raidus is okay pre-railroad. Post railroad these will all evenually need cleared, railed, and mined.

Forests are always okay on tundra inside city raidus.

Only build Coal Plants if it looks like we are going to be beat out to Hoover Dam and can't easily capture it once built. Even then, limit them to the highest productive cities.

Never build Nuke Plants.

Lobby Public Works to make standing orders ensuring the polution is dealt with immedately rather than waiting for the next turn chat.

	25-10-2002 00:49									#8
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn IMHO: All Jungle inside all city raidius will evenually need cleared. All cities that could grow past 12 will evenuaally need Hospitals. All forests on plains inside all city raidus need cleared quickly. Forests over unshielded grassland inside city raidus is okay pre-railroad. Post railroad these will all evenually need cleared, railed, and mined. Forests are always okay on tundra inside city raidus. Only build Coal Plants if it looks like we are going to be beat out to Hoover Dam and can't easily capture it once built. Even then, limit them to the highest productive cities. Never build Nuke Plants. Lobby Public Works to make standing orders ensuring the polution is dealt with immedately rather than waiting for the next turn chat.

This is very sensible. I would support that exact plan (and, in fact, it reflects how I play single-player as well ).

	25-10-2002 00:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Randolph Humm.. I wonder how many acres of Jungle the "Jungle Gazette uses"? I suppose it gets its name from the precious natural resource that it is destroying. We are destroying our beautiful jungles for a mere periodical! Not even a permanent book. Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

If someone had done their research, they would know that the Gazette uses pressed leaves that have already fallen. We do not destroy anything.

	25-10-2002 01:11									#10
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn IMHO: All Jungle inside all city raidius will evenually need cleared. All cities that could grow past 12 will evenuaally need Hospitals. All forests on plains inside all city raidus need cleared quickly. Forests over unshielded grassland inside city raidus is okay pre-railroad. Post railroad these will all evenually need cleared, railed, and mined. Forests are always okay on tundra inside city raidus. Only build Coal Plants if it looks like we are going to be beat out to Hoover Dam and can't easily capture it once built. Even then, limit them to the highest productive cities. Never build Nuke Plants. Lobby Public Works to make standing orders ensuring the polution is dealt with immedately rather than waiting for the next turn chat.

While that is very sensible and all, that is not what I was getting at, really.

Forget about what is good in-game. Set up the "Apolytonian National Jungle" or the "Insert Name Mountains" These will never be touched no matter how much they would improve whatever city beyond the use of roads. Sure, it might not make that city the most productive, but many people have already stated that we are a shoe in to win. Preserve these for future generations. ROLEPLAY a bit IN game.

	25-10-2002 01:40									#11
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I vote for exactly two such regions.

The Northern Pole artic reserve encombasing all terriority north of the northern map edge, and the Southern Pole artic reserve combassing all territory south of the southern map edge.

	25-10-2002 01:41									#12
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx While that is very sensible and all, that is not what I was getting at, really. Forget about what is good in-game. Set up the "Apolytonian National Jungle" or the "Insert Name Mountains" These will never be touched no matter how much they would improve whatever city beyond the use of roads. Sure, it might not make that city the most productive, but many people have already stated that we are a shoe in to win. Preserve these for future generations. ROLEPLAY a bit IN game.

And, roleplaying that part I've already clearly chosen in game...

We have not yet researched this notion of "ecology" and other environmental impacts. As such, there is no research to indicate that there is ANY negative impact to our environment from improving the standard of living of our people through better medical care, greater industrial output, and the use of fossil fuels as an energy source. Of course, many of these innovations will themselves require much more research until they are prepared for implementation, but no research exists AT ALL to indicate that any of them would have a negative impact on our environment.

Those aruing that we should forgo the interests of our citizens in favor of some odd-ball belief that improving the standard of living will harm our environment have obviously been smoking too much bananabis!

	25-10-2002 01:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I vote for exactly two such regions. The Northern Pole artic reserve encombasing all terriority north of the northern map edge, and the Southern Pole artic reserve combassing all territory south of the southern map edge.

LMAO!!!

I'm with ya, Jon.

--Togas

	25-10-2002 01:51									#14
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Slash and burn techniques have worked well so far, who is to say that continuing to do so will cause problems.

	25-10-2002 01:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos And, roleplaying that part I've already clearly chosen in game... We have not yet researched this notion of "ecology" and other environmental impacts. As such, there is no research to indicate that there is ANY negative impact to our environment from improving the standard of living of our people through better medical care, greater industrial output, and the use of fossil fuels as an energy source. Of course, many of these innovations will themselves require much more research until they are prepared for implementation, but no research exists AT ALL to indicate that any of them would have a negative impact on our environment. Those aruing that we should forgo the interests of our citizens in favor of some odd-ball belief that improving the standard of living will harm our environment have obviously been smoking too much bananabis!

There is no technology to prove that a democratic government exists either, but I see you whole heartedly supporting it in other threads...

I do assure you, though, there will be a negative impact should I be left without enough jungle left to produce the paper.

	25-10-2002 02:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx There is no technology to prove that a democratic government exists either, but I see you whole heartedly supporting it in other threads...

I will respectfully refer you to the thread of the democracy movement... on in which I have clearly stated my stance on the issue... that I only would support ANY expansion of the franchise by the Senate after that option has been more thoroughly researched by our thinkers.

	25-10-2002 04:48									#17
	environmental protection Increase the size of your Attachments

I'd say razing the jungle to build are cities is an invalidation of any proprosed environmental preservation policy out there. I'm all for keeping one square of jungle for posterity, though, as a shining example and symbol of the mercy we can have for any nation that concedes now and allows itself to be assimilated... at least until global warming turns it into a desert

	25-10-2002 05:05									#18
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quote: This smells of liberal, count me in

Absolutly jdjdjd, exactly what I wanted to say to this, but couldn't quite express it.

Here we find an excellent use for our military. Make sure those AI scum don't send workers to cut down forests!

	25-10-2002 06:04									#19
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As someone already pointed out, an environmental agenda would be very hard to marry with a humanitarian one. So for now, I'm going to take the easy road out (since it's 720AD), and say "Environmental" - what's that?

As fun as it might be, I'll stick with one fight at a time, and the AEM vs. the Warmongers is all I can handle right now.

	25-10-2002 16:23									#20
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So who's plot of land do you want to keep as a reserve in the $mini-game? Perhaps a particular near-monopolist?

I like this idea, we don't need the extra production, and it would be nice. Also you don't need knowledge of scientific ecology in order to enjoy natural environments, and see that if we keep cutting them down they won't be there any more.