25-10-2002 04:47									#1
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Ok, I am not new to Civilization, I've been playing since civ 1 and have always loved the game, I usually play on Prince level and win and I decided that wasn't good enough... and I just got Civ 3... and I have found that I can't win on anything higher than chieftan... and I don't know what I'm doing wrong...

I read over a post on people who play monarch level to try and get some good strategies. One was to make lots of cities right away about 2 or more tiles apart from each other (you are not planning for huge modern day cities at the beginning) and if you are going to build anything... its barracks only... so I tried this strategy... also rather than jumping into a war I prepared by having barracks in most of my cities and had about 14 swordsmen ready to go while getting about 1 or 2 each turn and I'm finding that its taking forever... I finally wiped out the one civ I was trying to wipe out and its about 1000AD... and I'm on a pangea continent so I'm sharing the rest of it with 6 other civs now (standard size map) and they are way more technologicly advanced and they are taking my cities with culture and are bigger in size than me. Even if i started now there is no way I could take them all over so I am going to try becoming a republican governmetn to try and catch up science wise and I don't know what I should do. This may sound pathetic but I have no clue what I'm doing wrong.

Can anyone offer some advice for someone coming from call to power / civ 2 who is looking to become anything better than chieftan in civ 3? Maybe not advanced tactics for taking on the higher levels, but tactics to just get my foot in the door so I can start getting better at those tactics and work on the higher difficulty levels. I won't be able to sleep until I beat warlord level :P. Sad as it is.

Thanks for the help in advance and sorry for the long post.

	25-10-2002 05:03									#2
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You do not say what level you are currently playing and what type of problems you are encountering.
First thing I see often in ne players is that workers are automated from the beginning or nealy so. Look at Crackers starting move on CFC to get the best moves to make and why workers must be manage (at least untill RR).
If you are at warlord or even regent, you can out perform the AI. You can grow as fast or faster and create better cities. This means you can get wonders and hold a tech lead.
So what is happening in your games?
One thread here has some links to post with strategies, that could help.
Post a save of where you seem to get bogged down, bettter even to have a much ealier to accompany it.

	25-10-2002 05:12									#3
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yeah I usually manage my workers until I end up capturing so many that I don't know what to do with them all and I've done all the basic things like link all my cities together... but do you suggest I always control them? as in irrigating everything?

the main problems I seem to be having is huge corruption levels. Even in a republic if a city is more than 6 tiles away it experiences huge corruption and I have to build a courthouse... now that I have both a courthouse and a barracks (because I must expand and try and secure as much land as possible) than I keep having to lower my science rate which is why I am falling so far behind in tech.

Another thing is that wars seem to be very lengthy... like it takes forever to take down a civ. They keep producing just as many units as I do and the only advantage I seem to have is that mine are all veteran from the start and that I have stockpiled a whole bunch before attacking (a new strategy I am employing in this current game which seems to help me at least gain a foothold on wars rather than get beat down with a stick).

quote: Look at Crackers starting move on CFC

What do you mean by this? I don't know what CFC is or who Cracker is. And as for the strategy links I think i will check those out too. Thanks for posting so soon.

	25-10-2002 05:28									#4
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Hi, and welcome to 'poly.

There are lots of threads and people around here who can be very helpful in getting you up to speed.

Try starting here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59216

Start with the "Winning Early" thread.

Look for info on breaking Civ2 habits... irrigation is generally a no-no, for instance.

CFC is Civ Fanatics Center, another forum, and Cracker is a wizard, especially at the early game, who hangs out both there and here. He prepared a masterly analysis of early game decisions / strategy, which is here:

http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3...ening_plays.htm

	25-10-2002 05:36									#5
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awwww thank you so much... exactly what I needed all in one post haha.

Thank you very much Theseus, I think thats what I need to do... break civ 2 habits :P. And my other weakness is indeed the early game. Thank you very much and if this doesn't help I will post back. I am in your gratitude

	25-10-2002 06:35									#6
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Ok you have the link now.
No I did not mean irrigation of all tiles. I only irrigate when it is required for growth, else mine. Anyway I could not know if that was an issue for you and maybe it is not, just that it is common to see people irrigate instead of and automate workers. You never did say what the level is so I do not know if they should be out in front or not, but if you have decent start location and do a good job of expanding and improvements, they should not be out producing you on Warlord or even Regent. Good luck.

	25-10-2002 13:23									#7
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chanser -

Here's a bit of advice from a relative newbie - I am only on Regent right now...

Do not start out with Industrious civs...

You'll be spoiled and end up missing out on the other civs because you don't develop the skill to play with slower workers...that's the boat I'm in now, and every time I try to start a game with a non-Industrious civ, I completely blow the early game and realize halfway to the Middle Ages that I've been working at half-speed.

So, try out multiple civs. Learn how to compensate for slow workers. Let the fast workers be a luxury, not a need, and I think you'll get more out of the game.

Not really "strategy", but related.

	25-10-2002 20:24									#8
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thank you very much ducki,

your strategy is very much appreciated and i see well how I could easily get attached to the fast workers . I spent 5 hours reading strategy on CFC. 4 of those 5 hours was about the early game (your first city and figuring what the power tiles are and developing them effectively. Very interesting stuff. I also looked up war tactics and some anti-corruption tactics too. I think I may be able to fight wars better now and avoid them better too. Also with corruption I will try and get my cities towards WLTK day and another strategy one guy had was to build a forbidden palace in your main city and build a regular palace in the trouble areas (as you can move only your palace). Other than that... lower empire sizes and trying to figure out how far is too far to expand and getting the early "foot in the door" so to speak is what I need to work on.

I played a quick test-game of my new knowledge last night before going to bed and I was able to identify the power squares (cow that needed a mine and a plains with wheat that needed some irrigation and as soon as i got it... BAM my city was growing and pumping out settlers like crazy... I wasn't paying attention and I ended up with an extra warrior and i sent him to explore... found a warrior + settler group... kicked their ass and got me 2 FREE workers!! Sure it started a war... but when they have 1 puny city and I have 3 developed ones with more on the way, they will be begging me to stop won't they? Hehe.

Alright, well I plan on starting a new game today and hopefully I will get somewhere. If you guys have more strategies, like ducki's for example, about not the early game... but the establishing yourself, expanding, etc. part of the game then please post .

Thank you for being so supportive

	25-10-2002 22:08									#9
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Oh, also, the Must Read threads on Theseus' link are incredible.

And my rule of thumb is to mine everything I think I can actually work(Shielded grass, cows, horses, wheats) UNTIL I start getting close to either Republic or Monarchy - then I'll send some workers back to irrigate the tiles that will be most productive and will free up citizens to work mountains and hills. Very early game, mine as much as you can use while emphasizing a road network. Middle Ancient to Late Ancient, start irrigating some tiles in preparation for a real government.


Also, the Japan GOTM on CFC had a great analysis of how and why to develop what in your first city or two - things that are very very micro-managerial - on the order of "don't have your worker cross a river only to cross back, you've wasted two turns" sort of thing. Great stuff.


This forum has so much great stuff that I can't begin to direct you - which reminds me, try the Apolyton Directory, which has links to much of the stuff in the "Must Read" thread. Don't hesitate to ask questions, I've had nothing but love from this community. These guys are great and will even download your game saves and give you tips, etc.

	28-10-2002 00:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by chanser69 I wasn't paying attention and I ended up with an extra warrior and i sent him to explore... found a warrior + settler group... kicked their ass and got me 2 FREE workers!! Sure it started a war... but when they have 1 puny city and I have 3 developed ones with more on the way, they will be begging me to stop won't they? Hehe.

"And the winner for fastest conversion to the Dark Side is..."

(be careful with Warrior-bopping though; I usually try to have 2:1 on attack)

	28-10-2002 03:45									#11
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quote: Originally posted by ducki ... Do not start out with Industrious civs... You'll be spoiled and end up missing out on the other civs because you don't develop the skill to play with slower workers. ... So, try out multiple civs. Learn how to compensate for slow workers. ...

That's so true of Civ3. Whatever civ you get in the habit of using, you get shocked when you begin a game with different civ characteristics, be it scientific, religious, industrious, ...

	29-10-2002 20:18									#12
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Yeah I know what you mean... I'm playing as Militaristic and Expansionistic and enjoying even those benefits. I will try as much as possible to not get "addicted" to specific benefits. As for the conversion to the dark side... I am coming from a not being able to win background... I will take out civs early if that means that I will have one less person to face :P cruel as it is. Once I get good or moderate, then I will let them live to make things interesting .

As for the game I'm playing now, I'm doing pretty good I think. It's about 1800-1900AD (can't remember right now) and I own my continent, have for a long time... and I am trying to figure out how to wage an overseas war and I am probably going to look up tactics but I think I kinda figured it out a bit. My plan is to get a bunch of destroyers guarding 2 transports... plus another destroyer guarding an aircraft carrier... bring them to shore... start bombing the city until its ready... land my forces that are a combination of artillery, tanks and infantry... the artillery will weaken the defences... the tanks will stomp them out... and then I will defend with the infantry. I am just about to enter modern age.... and i'm 1800-1900AD.. am i doing good so far? or better at least.

Also another thing is that they keep trying to friendly establish cities on the little spaces on my continent where there is no culture. I have tried to put units on the shore but they go around them... and I can't afford having more cities because the corruption will go up. Any ideas on that?

	29-10-2002 21:39									#13
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It is hard to say about how to deal with the settler bit as it would depend on what the land looked like. First thing is no map trading, until you have the whole area locked up, or you want them to come in. If you are rated as strong compared to them they will be less likely to cross you culture border. If you can not block the moves, you really can only either kill them or flip them. Did you ask them to leave and if so was there a way for them to go that did not improve their position?

	29-10-2002 22:10									#14
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On the note of an overseas war -
Airports+Rail = faster reinforcements than transports.

Yes, you need to Transport you initial invasion force, but those cities you take will be very unproductive.

Try to either capture one with an airport or rush an airport once you have a beachhead city.

Then, whenever a city on your main island finishes a unit, railway gets it to the airport without using any movement so you can Airlift him to the beachhead city on the same turn.

On immigrant towns -
And if your culture is strong, sometimes I'll let the AI settle in "my" territory(early game only) while I keep producing either culture buildings or wonders. With good culture (temples everywhere at the very least, from the very earliest possible time) you should be able to easily flip one or two errant immigrant towns.

With culture to weak to flip or too many immigrant towns to flip? Dunno. Early game I see these towns as the AI helping me out. Late game... well, by the Industrial Era I try to have my borders unbroken and unflanked.

If you like, some of the guys here have been helping me with my first Regent game with some really good tips, pointers, strategy, etc.
The thread is "Ducki Went Regent... How'm I doin'"
Screenshots and SAVs galore, both from me and more experienced civvers trying to show me how to do better.

GL

	29-10-2002 22:19									#15
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Yes a save wold make it easier to see.

	29-10-2002 23:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by chanser69 ... destroyers guarding 2 transports... plus another destroyer guarding an aircraft carrier... bring them to shore... start bombing the city until its ready... land my forces that are a combination of artillery, tanks and infantry...

Assuming your enemy has railroads and a dozen (or few dozen) of cavalry, you will probably take terrible losses of anything not in mountains on your first couple of turns, so be prepared to follow up with major reinforcements (or to withdraw your invasion force). He will hit you with everything he's got if he is not already engaged elsewhere.

I think 2 transports full should be 4-5 transports. My trepidations are based on a traumatic experience I had where I lost over half my invasion force similar to yours (but more of them) against cavalry, knights and immortals. Anytime I left the mountains to attack a city, I got butchered. They lost 3 or 4 times as many units, but they had their whole army to call on.

If he IS engaged in offensive actions in someone else's territory, or doesn't even have cavalry yet, please disregard this post.

Whatever you do, have fun (or learn from it)!

	29-10-2002 23:19									#17
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Here is something you may try....


Don't research any tech at all in the early game except your first tech. It you set the slider at 2 clicks, or 20% you will notice that you get your first tech in 40 turns. After you get your first tech turn the slider down to 0. Then just buy those techs that take you toward the Great Library only. When you see that your next tech will get you the GL, start saving shields in your best city and save your cash. When the first civ gets the tech for the GL buy it with your saved cash and then change your shield city over to produce it fast. If you have been attacking a close civ with the archer attack strategy, you may even have a Leader to spend on getting the GL. Once you have the GL you only need to buy contact with every civ in the game and you will keep up with tech easy until Education where the GL ends.


Also, another strategy for getting techs is to attack a strong civ near you, then after you take the first city or two by supprise, park your attack force next to a good city of his and ask for peace and every tech he has. Most times they will give you the techs to keep you from attacking the city. Then wait 20 turns and R & R.


Good luck!


Oh! One other thing. Protect your reputation at all costs. Never attack and enemy civ with troops inside his borders. Wait just outside his borders and declare war. The post the turn and attack the next turn. Also, don't break contracts!

	30-10-2002 01:44									#18
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Ok, so I'm a little late to this thread. "Warrior-bopping"? Is that an official CIV III term now?

I like.

	30-10-2002 03:03									#19
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wow so many ideas! and all of them great!

in order..

vmxa1: no map trading... that is an excellent strategy! I never even thought of that. But thinking now, if they can't see where I live then they can't settle my island.. or at least it will take a while to find out where. In this game it was me, the Koreans, and the Khmer (I am Mongolians ... heh go figure) and I was isolated on my continent with them and just finished kicking their ass around 1200-1400ad at which point one of the civs from the other continent came into contact with me and we traded world maps and i had my maps completed... I will think twice next time. As for the settlers... my continent is kinda shaped like a big 8 with the middle being a little wider than a land bridge.. maybe about 3 tiles wide... and my capitol is at the top and my forbidden palace is around the middle... so my cities on the very bottom (in ice and mountain I might add) have no culture... and they are settling in between the gaps there, some friendly, some enemies so I do'nt know what to do other than kick their ass as soon as they set foot on my continent... friendly or not. I can't really ask them to leave cause they're not in my borders, only on my land.

ducki: railway + airport... I never even thought about that... that is a ingenious strategy and I will put that in effect at full speed... what a very good idea! who needs ships when you can instantly go to their continent. I just need to finish researching flight :P... as for culture flipping cities... I would but as the last paragraph I wrote... they are near my smallest cities with immense corruption and therefore hardly any culture... although I could try and rush a temple or library or something... and I have already checked out that post and it is very good! Haven't finished reading it though. Thank you very much!

Jaybe: no no you are right... they do have cavalry and it is on their territory.. only i have 2 or 3 civs throwing all their forces at me at once :P. Luckily I land on hills so defensive bonus . I will most definetly not just take 2 transports and I will go with a minimum of 4. Very good advice again... I totally understand where your coming from and I can just see that same situation being recreated heh. I sympathise for your poor troops hehe.

ArmaGeddin: That is yet another god strategy. A little bit harder to impliment and it seems like it would be hard to time the GL with having just enough shields. I will try that out possibly in my next game. Hehe I really like your second strategy though hehe... I've done that a few times. A couple times I actually let peace last until they dared attack me again... but once I made them give me all their gold and techs and then finished them off muahaha. Cruel yes I know.

Ok so I am going to finally go back to this game and hopefully finish it winning thanks for the great advice, I really appreciate it. Bye for now.

	30-10-2002 03:57									#20
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Oh, on getting your map completed, I'll generally try offering them 5 gold - usually they're willing to give their World Map if they are not rich. Sometimes I'll go as high as 10, but I try to never trade my map away unless it's important - at least until I'm done filling out my own continent, or don't mind a couple of "free" cities when my culture catches up with them.

Note - normally when you try to trade and say "What do you want for Ironworking" or whatever tech, they'll include your world map - just remove it and about 99% of the time, the trade still goes through and you still have your map "secret".

	05-02-2003 22:41									#21
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all of you guys... are the best!!!

Thank you guys so much... i haven't beaten 1 warlord game... but 3!!!! and am finding it not much of a challenge heh. I just finished re-reading the post and a couple of thing things i haven't tried or thought I couldn't pull off... i see how they can be easily implimented. I am trying to move to Regent level now. First attempt I ended up 500AD with nothing... well half my continent and in no place to attack... which i consider nothing... behind in tech... and all my cities size 1-3. Gonna take some work. Gonna re-impliment tactics and try and choose new ones. I'm wondering about governments though... when is a good time to switch governments and for what situation? And what is good for late game? I end up pulling a communist war-time government which pumps out the units... but that gets pretty boring because all your doing is pumping out units, there is not much strategy when you are massacring or sending 12+ units to attack hoping eventually to break their defences and have a unit or 2 leftover to defend. And when do you switch to war mode rather than research mode? When it gets late in the game I get anxious to start a war and start wiping out... and its a good thing too because i usually finish about 1950AD... not much time to spare!

Anyways the main reason I'm posting is to thank you guys all for your strategies and let you know that I have beaten warlord several times . Thanks again.