27-10-2002 01:59									#1
	Embassies on The Lost Continent Support Apolyton

From my experience, AIs will pay you for a RoP if you have a larger territory, regardless of how far the two civs are or whether they can even use the RoP. The actual cost is then determined according to your relations with the AIs and possibly other factors.
So far we have not signed any RoPs with the exception of the RoP with Persia, which we signed shortly before the French bribed them into declaring war on us. However, if we establish embassies in the capitals of China, India and Zululand, we will be able to sign RoPs and make some money without actually having to worry about them entering our territories!

The numbers
Embassy in China: 49 Lytons.
Embassy in Zululand: 98 Lytons.
Embassy in India: 105 Lytons.
Total cost: 252.

Now, I do not expect the RoPs to yield a lot of cash at the moment because the lost civs are completely dry after giving us all of their income and their treasuries. However, when we're done selling them tech and luxuries, we may want to sign RoPs with them.
The income from the RoP can cover the cost of the embassy and even create a nice additional income if we choose to renew the deal every 20 turns.

	27-10-2002 02:12									#2
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Good call Shiber. I myself have used ROP's to great length in my own games and have found the same issues, that even if the other civs really don't NEED a ROP with you (and probably won't use it), they WILL pay for it, so this could be a very good way to accumulate some cash flow.

	27-10-2002 02:22									#4
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Don't forget that we still need Embassies with the Iroquois & Babylonians.

Iroquois - 74 Lytons.
Babylon - 78 Lytons.

E_T

	27-10-2002 03:06									#5
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I object your phrasing. IMHO we don't actually need embassies in the Iroquois and Babylonian capitals. We have no use for them as military allies, they will have very little to pay us for a RoP (if any at all) should we decide to sign one with them and trying to improve their attitude towards us is rather pointless IMHO since they'll be furious at us sooner or later as we continue to expand geographically, economically and militarily (you know how they get jealous).
That, unless I missed something.

	27-10-2002 03:11									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber I object your phrasing. IMHO we don't actually need embassies in the Iroquois and Babylonian capitals. We have no use for them as military allies, they will have very little to pay us for a RoP (if any at all) should we decide to sign one with them and trying to improve their attitude towards us is rather pointless IMHO since they'll be furious at us sooner or later as we continue to expand geographically, economically and militarily (you know how they get jealous). That, unless I missed something.

I was just pointing out that we also still needed Embassies with them, not that we might need them or not.

E_T

	27-10-2002 04:48									#7
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I personally despise ROPs as they only expire when one side or the other declares war on the the other half of the ROP.

	27-10-2002 05:21									#8
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I personally despise ROPs as they only expire when one side or the other declares war on the the other half of the ROP.

This is not true... RoPs work much like peace treaties in that if a LPT cost is attached to them, they are renewed on each 20 turns. The difference is that a RoP CAN be peacefully ended at the point of renegotiation (unlike a peace treaty).

What's annoying about RoPs is that the game doesn't warn you when they come up for renegotiation, so you have to keep track of when that turn is (or attach LPT to it so the AI automatically contacts you when the time for renegotiation arrives).

	27-10-2002 08:37									#9
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doesnt signing RoP improve relations as well?

	27-10-2002 09:23									#10
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But how long will it realistically take for the other civs to build up the amounts of cash and Lpt that we consider our techs and RoPs worth? The Zulus and Chinese are basically financially bonded to us with everything, and only India seemed to have the large Lpt that we would want for our techs. Eventually we will have to trade or lose the opportunity to eg the Romans, but how long do we wait before selling in the mean time?

	27-10-2002 10:05									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos This is not true... RoPs work much like peace treaties in that if a LPT cost is attached to them, they are renewed on each 20 turns. The difference is that a RoP CAN be peacefully ended at the point of renegotiation (unlike a peace treaty). What's annoying about RoPs is that the game doesn't warn you when they come up for renegotiation, so you have to keep track of when that turn is (or attach LPT to it so the AI automatically contacts you when the time for renegotiation arrives).

That's not true, our RoP with Persia lasted 39 turns and NEVER came up for renegotiation and could not be cancelled. It only stopped when they declared war, and they were still allowed to trade through our roads while they were at war with us.

	27-10-2002 10:19									#12
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RoPs do have a 20 turn length like anything else. I speak from experience. If the RoP was never renegotiated or cancelled, I guess Persia was happy with it and we never bothered to do anything.

	27-10-2002 11:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep RoPs do have a 20 turn length like anything else. I speak from experience. If the RoP was never renegotiated or cancelled, I guess Persia was happy with it and we never bothered to do anything.

After 20 turns we should be allowed to cancel it but the human player is NEVER given an option, the human is at he mercy of the AI player until war is declared.

	27-10-2002 13:46									#14
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb After 20 turns we should be allowed to cancel it but the human player is NEVER given an option, the human is at he mercy of the AI player until war is declared.

Not necessarily until war is declared. All it takes is paying attention to how long certain treaties have extended and being on top of things when they expire and let them do so.

	27-10-2002 14:00									#15
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Notice the HUGE amount of Gems in Zululand, eh? I believe my count is at 11! I believe that's close to a monopoly on the world, or at least well over half of all gem deposits.

Not to bring up the thought of another war or nothing...but those gems are so pretty...

	28-10-2002 01:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb After 20 turns we should be allowed to cancel it but the human player is NEVER given an option, the human is at he mercy of the AI player until war is declared.

Wierd. While there is no popup, I've always been able to cancel/renegotiate them in the "Active" treaties section in diplomacy.

	28-10-2002 02:06									#17
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kloreep I have encountered the same thing

	28-10-2002 13:37									#18
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I counted 12 gems. There's one in a city square.

	28-10-2002 13:45									#19
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GEM$$$$$$$$$$$

We must take these precious jewels from the infidels and put them to good use (Our female population would be very pleased if were able to secure them cheap gems).

Future War plans .......

	28-10-2002 17:33									#20
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Isn't there an option like “always renegotiate deals” or something to that effect that makes all deals come up after 20 turns?

	28-10-2002 22:05									#21
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RoP can be renegotiated. That we didn't do it does not mean it can't be done. We have renegotiated several peace treaties, yet we would have never gotten a pop-up about it.

We should have embassies in all states: They give us much better options to fool around with the rest of the world. Even embassies with the crappy civs. its a one time investement, so why not?

	29-10-2002 01:09									#22
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Randolph, that is 1.29f, and must be set at the begining of the game.

All those wanting war with the Zulus : There is no need at all for a military war overseas.

There's enough land on our own contientant that even if we were going after a domination victory, we could win the game without invading foreign islands.

And when the luxary deals come back for renewal, we may be better off trading one of our surplus Luxary (or surplus Saltpeter) for theres instead of parting with a tech.

	01-11-2002 04:54									#23
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Embassies also make them happy, and the price goes up as the game goes on.

	01-11-2002 04:56									#24
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Embassies also make them happy, and the price goes up as the game goes on.:b

	01-11-2002 16:30									#25
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You're got a point there.