27-10-2002 03:29									#1
	The Profitability of selling science Increase Your PM Length

The cost of deleoping science is give at

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...0368#post600368

The cost of development decreases with each civ that gets it. In patch 1.21, which the demo game uses with all 12 civs discovered the cost of the second civ getting it is 11/12 the cost of the first, the third is 10/12x ect.
Civs are willing to pay 1/2 the development cost to buy it, so if all 11 civs bought it at full price,you would get
1/2x(11/12+10/12+9/12+...3/12+2/12+1/12)=
66/24=11/4 of your cost, a tidy profit!
If only 4 bought it, you'd get
1/2x(11/12+10/12+9/12+8/12)=38/24=19/12, so you'd get more than you paid for it, and there would be 7 civs that got nothing ,which makes them less competitive in the long run, which means there would be less civs you'll have to attack to prevent them from getting the Spaceship
Even if only 1 civ bought from you, he'd give you roughly half the price of development, so you and he would be paying roughly half price, while the other 10 civs would be falling behind.
The other advantage none of your competition would be profiting by selling the tech first.
This technique can be the fastest way of multipling wealth (much faster than rush building), and if we pour all our resourses into it we can be first often!

	27-10-2002 06:00									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Of course you're assuming that the other civs have the resources to pay the full price the tech is "worth" and that they have not begun to research the tech you want to sell. more often than not I find this is certainly not the case. I'm lucky if 1 other civ pays full price. I still sell it, of course, I'm no fool.

	27-10-2002 06:29									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Selling tech is even more powerful than you think. When you have a monopoly on a tech, the first civ to buy it will pay up to 150% of the cost! (Minus what they already researched.)

If you sell all the AIs a new tech every 20 turns, you can keep them poor and slow their own research to almost nothing.

Scientific is the best AI attribute because those civs tend to get ahead in the tech race and bankrupt the other AIs with tech deals, which makes the scientific AI rich enough to research at 100%, build a bigger army, etc.

	27-10-2002 09:08									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

While selling science can indeed be very profitable, take note that the original tech pricing post (to which the thread starter linked) was done back in 2001 -- much has changed in tech costs, particularly tech trading costs.

Also, despite all the hard work people have done to decipher how techs are valued, none of the formulas posted to date have accurately taken into account all the variables that factor into tech "trading cost" -- optional techs, techs which allow wonders (great and small), techs which allow government changes, techs which allow unique abilities, techs which are bottlenecks -- all these factors and maybe more could (and seem to!) come to bear on the tech "trading cost." All the formulas that I have seen assume that tech "editor cost," combined with map size, extent to which tech is known among known civs, etc. are the only variables at play, but it just isn't so.

Tech brokering can be a very powerful technique, but don't rely solely on the view that each new tech is worth X or Y depending on how you play out the trading options.

Catt

	27-10-2002 23:55									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don;t even TRY to be formulaic in determining the value of techs... as Catt says, too many variables to begin with, as well as too much mechanism uncertainty.

The true test is immediately upon gaining a new tech, whether through research, goodie huts, trade, or extortion... what is it worth RIGHT THEN, and to whom?

Managed right, trading techs can be one of your most potent 'weapons.'

	31-10-2002 00:52									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Corollary to this. The Ai will pay you maybe 40gpt for a luxury (if they are hideously wealthy). But often you have to trade a tech just to get a luxury off of them. Any game with lots of opponents it is a good tip to get all your trades in on the same turn. Every twenty turns you get umpteen messages that you have lost your supplies of lots of luxuries. Fine sell one tech for seven luxuries (and gpt if you can get it). It's one of the best ways of keeping your research at a competitive level. With all luxuries flowing through your trade network and 10%-40% of your revenue going to luxuries you'll be able to keep WLTKD rolling through the last three eras (war permitting). With the cumulative corruption beating effect of WLTKD going you can keep up in research with even a moderately sized empire. In my experience this can translate into a tech lead that increases by one tech or more every twenty turn. Trade techs like a fool the turn before Theory of evolution gets completed. You are gifted the cheap ones, so might as wel make the cheap ones expensive.

	31-10-2002 01:00									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Does ToE still pick the techs for you? Using 1.29f I got whatever techs I set to research.

	31-10-2002 02:36									#8
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by DaveMcW Does ToE still pick the techs for you? Using 1.29f I got whatever techs I set to research.

ToE lets you pick the techs.
Call it "Darwin's Choice"