27-10-2002 06:20									#1
	Wow!! The AI Launched a Real Invasion! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Maybe there's something wrong with my CD, but in my last game of Civ as Rome, Russia was just to the north on a small island. They deposited some troops using boats, and a couple other guys approached from the north. They got next to my capital, and then declared war! Their invasion failed (barely), but I've never seen the AI invade like that before. Usually they'll just demand something, I say no, they declare war. Even when I'm on uneven footing, I'll manage to launch the first invasion, and soon it's a stalemate. But I've never seen the AI do that before!

	27-10-2002 06:54									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Then you are lucky, because I very nearly lost a game on monarch dificulty that way.

Its happened to me several times. In fact, nearly every time I play as a "peaceful builder" (which aint offen!).

I have been, on occasion, impressed with the Civ3 AI's audacity and apparent cleverness compared to Civ2.
deja-vu?

	27-10-2002 07:51									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Is that really necassary.

	27-10-2002 18:51									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Couldn't help it

ot: do you think this was a one off . THat the ai's units were just in the right place at the right time. To be honest I havn't seen (m)any impressive invasions (yet).

	27-10-2002 23:38									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Nope, I'm positive. An Archer approached from the north of the continent, and a boat landed a few more guys on the east coast of the continent (the continent I was on was like a wide column), they all made a b-line straight for my capital, and declared war. I was terribly surprised.

	28-10-2002 00:41									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I've had it happen to me too, but only when I had a good rep. If i've gone on a conquering spree, never.

	28-10-2002 03:19									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It has happened to me early in a game when I was on an island playing Egyptians facing the Americans across a narrow channel.

I lost the race to get a boat first and they sent across a settler unit with a military unit. They landed and immediately moved north out of my view.

I went to investigate with 3 units of warriors and found that a city was built on a river in tundra area. It was still size 1 and I attacked and it disappeared.

America declared war and I was thinking yeah - sure. Just watch for single ships along the coast with my ship and shadow them, land units off my ship after they land and finish them off.

Four ships had sailed north along the American side of the water and I followed these carefully. I had two troops on my ship which I couldn't afford to lose in naval battle.

The ships approached the northern part of my island and landed eight troops, these marched south and arrived outside my northernmost city - I could not put in reinforcement quickly enough and lost 2 spearmen off boat and 1 warrior from city to 7 attacks, 3 survivors. So now US had 4 units in that city.

Two units moved to my capital which I reinforced with 1 unit out of each of my remaining three cities. Now I had my capital with 6 units, and three remaining cities with 2 units each. I thought this would be an end to it. The usual mopping up of stray troops in the countryside then retake my northern city.

US now appeared with 3 ships unloading 6 troops next to my southern city which I tried to reinforce from the capital. The reinforcements were harried by the 2 American units as they went south and one was lost in battle.

The delay for the battle was crucial as the Americans attacked and took my southern city with 4 units. The remaining 2 US units in the south then attacked and destroyed my 1 remaining unit in the field as it retreated to the capital.

Then US stopped - they had me over a barrell. A repeat performance of landing with 6 or 8 troops would have overwhelmed any of the remaining cities outside the capital.

I survived for long enough to take my northern city back with culture and later took the southern city by force. Even though US declared war again they never did this trick again.

I have seen Greeks do this to Iroquois in another game.

I only see this in the earliest parts of the game. After then it seems that they only sail in singles with settler and defending unit.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

	28-10-2002 03:29									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Jesus.

That's the way it should be though.

	28-10-2002 03:54									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If the AI can do it sometimes why doesn't it happen more. If the event is relatively rare the trigger or condition for it cannot be spotted.

Maybe these events which happen only one game in ten I estimate from my experience are a pre-programmed thing. i.e. there is a launch invasion routine which says

1. Load ships to 2x no. of troops at target.
2. land troops out of sight of target.
3. attack target.

But the trigger to attack a city is so small a value or such a rare combination of circumstance that it can only happen rarely. It is a pity if this is the case because it really is challenging to counter.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

	28-10-2002 12:24									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Persians invaded me in my last game. They came with 2 transports, landed and declared war. My infantries, artilerries and tanks were sooo scared when they saw the powerful Persian army of 12 Immortals!!

	28-10-2002 14:38									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I had also a terrible experience. I was the greeks. To the south were a bunch of Iroquoise villages. They had horses& Iron, I didn't

We lived peacefully next to each other, then suddenly they just declared a war against me. They had a huge stack of mounted braves moving towards my cities. There was practically nothing I could have done. Thus, I lost almost instantly (say, in 10-15 turns).

Hiawatha had no manners at all

	28-10-2002 16:21									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I've had the AI attempt such things in the past, but because my culture is always insultingly H U G E they never sneak far enough inland to get to my cities, let alone my capitol, before I notice them and rain arty heel on their littel convoy.

I had just today a similar situation though, which annoyed the hell out of me. I left (accidentaly) a city unprotected all the way way way way back at the rear of my empire, near no one. The french had a free passage treaty with me and was helping my fight romans, aztecs and english. They basically took advantage of the treaty to put a marine next to my city, declare war and invade. Needless to say I was very annoyed. Not that it's so hard to get back: it would have flipped back very soon anyway, and one tank could take it back, but all those temples and libraries and stuff that I've had built since 999999999 b.c. (or something) are gone and the accumalted culture value with it.

Oh, and then I took over their entire empire of 4 cities within 2 turns. That should teach 'em! Funny that when you think the AI does a brilliant military move, it happens at the same time they do an utterly STUPID political decision.

	28-10-2002 16:40									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

In my situation the best units for me were Hopolite and archer (I didn't have horses nor iron - the iroquoise had both).

So, my situation was not good at all...

	28-10-2002 18:23									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The AI tried this trick on me a couple of times. I kicked its butt. But I like when it happens.

	29-10-2002 03:05									#15
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One game, as America, the Russians and the Iroquois both tried invading me in that way (not at the same time though).

Of course, Japan and the Iroquois had greatly weakened the Russians in a past war, and I had greatly weakened the Iroquois in a few short wars, where the main objective was to wipe out their offensive forces as opposed to complete conquest.

The Russians entered my borders with a large stack of warriors and swordsmen (they were still medieval, with musketmen being the best defenders, swordsmen being the best attackers). My infantry and artillery combos made short work of them, and with railroads, I managed to wipe out Russia in less than six turns (though they were still sizable despite being weakened in their past wars). I managed this by having my workers railroad the newly occupied territory as I continued my advance.

As for the Iroquois, it was much the same thing (only they used knights and Mounted Warriors). They took longer to wipe out since much of their territory was unroaded, mountainous and covered in forest.

In another case, as Rome, I was sneak attacked by Persia. They landed a couple of caravels full of knights and took one of my poorly defended port towns (only being defended by four legions.

The main problem I've seen with this great effort to start the war is the fact that they cannot continue to fight so effectively after the initial strike, and I am quick to liberate my fallen cities, take the battle to their front doorstep, and enlist their neighbours to join me in wiping them out.