28-10-2002 01:15									#61
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From whom are you expecting one, exactly?

What oops? Like, "Oops I accidentally made a wrong post," or "Oops everything I've been saying is completely false." ?

	28-10-2002 01:16									#62
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Fez has all of the imperfections of the human race without being able to lay claim to any of its genius.

	28-10-2002 01:17									#63
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Uh huh... you can claim whatever you like... doesn't make it true... you can even be describing yourself... as you are doing now.

	28-10-2002 01:18									#64
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And I'm rubber you're glue?

	28-10-2002 01:22									#65
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor From whom are you expecting one, exactly? What oops? Like, "Oops I accidentally made a wrong post," or "Oops everything I've been saying is completely false." ?

I am expecting a reply from anyone who thinks that the UN is something more than an international debating club. And I confused the name of another poster with yours so I said oops and deleted the post.

	28-10-2002 01:24									#66
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I figured it was some such thing. I was just messing...

	28-10-2002 01:25									#67
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So let me ask you something Lincoln, since you have stated opposition to the premise of the United Nations, do you think we should make war against Iraq if it refuses to comply with the UN's wishes?

	28-10-2002 01:28									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Of course the peacenicks would like to see him defy the UN and get away with it. I suppose they think that promotes peace in the world.

Why shouldn't he defy them? If they're little more than an international debate club?

	28-10-2002 01:30									#69
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And you still haven't answered my right or wrong demand....

EDIT: It's OK if you want to go back on something you said in order to align all your opinions with themselves. I won't hold it against you, as long as you'll admit it.

	28-10-2002 01:30									#70
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IIRC, Israel has defied several UN resolutions. I don't see you eager to go invading them for noncompliance...

	28-10-2002 01:40									#71
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I am not eager for the UN to do anything because I think it IS and international debating club. I think their resolutions are a joke whether they be against Israel or whoever. And I am not eager for an invasion into Iraq or Israel. I would simply like to know what the answer is from those who do place some faith in the UN. Bush seems to have called their bluff which apparently is what their resolutions are.

In clear answer to Tandy's question I would say that the whole war against terrorism is a joke with or without the UN. I am not for invading anyone. In my opinion it is an unwinable war. We are hated because our women do not wear Burkas among other things. We can't fight fanatics who hate anything not Muslim.

	28-10-2002 01:51									#72
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Relax, folks. If and when Iraq does get nuclear weapons, Saddam Hussein will merely demand that we sign a non-aggression treaty with him, much like North Korea is demanding of the United States now. Yes, yes, NK is in violation of its 1994 agreement but, hey, they're just coming clean, that's all. We can trust 'em enough to sign a non-aggression treaty with them.

Gatekeeper

	28-10-2002 01:57									#73
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The solution is to start buying burkas from Iraq and to force our women to wear them and walk two (or is it three) steps behind their husbands. Then voila! End of international terrorism!

	28-10-2002 01:58									#74
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Iraq isn't fundamentalistic...few burkas there.

	28-10-2002 01:59									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Relax, folks. If and when Iraq does get nuclear weapons, Saddam Hussein will merely demand that we sign a non-aggression treaty with him, much like North Korea is demanding of the United States now. Yes, yes, NK is in violation of its 1994 agreement but, hey, they're just coming clean, that's all. We can trust 'em enough to sign a non-aggression treaty with them.

Thank you, Jimmy Carter!

	28-10-2002 02:10									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Iraq isn't fundamentalistic...few burkas there.

I was just suggesting that we show a token of support for our flailing friendship that perhaps Saddam would see as an olive branch of sorts.

	28-10-2002 02:17									#77
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First...'

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln ...If Saddam defies the UN then there will likely be one though. Of course the peacenicks would like to see him defy the UN and get away with it. I suppose they think that promotes peace in the world. ... ...But there must be a price to pay when they make a mockery of the UN. what would you suggest -- more sanctions and starve more people until they submit?... ...There is a threat of war if they continue to mock the UN peace efforts. Because everyone does it should it continue to be ignored or should we start somewhere and actually back up the words?... ...I see everyone is ignoring the options that the UN should choose if Iraq continues to defy it. What should the UN do if and when Iraq again ignores it?...

And then...

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln ...By the way, I don't like the UN either ... ... anyone who thinks that the UN is something more than an international debating club. ... ...I am not eager for the UN to do anything because I think it IS and international debating club. ... ...I think their resolutions are a joke whether they be against Israel or whoever....

And as to Israel...

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln ...I agree Tandy that we should never have entangled ourselves with other nations the way we have.... ...Forsaking Israel is blatant appeasement..... ...Well I think it is right to be friends with Israel...

Me: But Israel is entangling alliance.

quote: Yes, I agree.

Me: Right or wrong?

No answer.


I'm sure you can see how someone might confuse your positions on certain issues.

	28-10-2002 02:19									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I was just suggesting that we show a token of support for our flailing friendship that perhaps Saddam would see as an olive branch of sorts.

Are you trying to be funny? No offense, but it ain't working for ya...

	28-10-2002 02:20									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Yes, and before Saddam releases his twenty nukes at us! But luckily, he'll be stepping down.....oh wait, thats CHINA. So yeah your right, we shouldnt wait for Saddam to begin harbouring terrorists and letting them train in his country. And boy, does he have a high chance of nuking his...Oh wait a minute, thats PAKISTAN. But....you do have a point. Some people in this world really hate the US. And this entire world is powered by money....and Iraq has a ton of it. I mean, they finance terrorists every day! Oh my, wait just a second....thats SAUDI ARABIA. And didn't Iraq violate that No Nukes treaty? Oh wait.....that was (haha) NORTH KOREA. And hey, who says you can trust former foes turned allies...Iraq already has a HUGE stockpile and I highly doubt they'll abide by the arms reducation treaty.....Oh yes, thats RUSSIA. And heck, you definately can't trust Iraq....theyre defeated in WW1, and then again in WW2.......Oh my, that was GERMANY. My mistake. And when people tell you size doesnt matter.....It really does. And Iraq is a HUGE country, second largest in the world.....Wait a minute, I'm talking about CANADA. Iraq used to be our greatest ally....they helped us win our independance AND they even gave us a large statue thats one of the most recognizable symbols of America to date....Oh wait, thats FRANCE. ALL THESE COUNTRIES COULD ATTACK THE US AT ANY TIME. Probably all these countries have access to checmical weapons. All these countries pose a threat to the United States and her interests. Should we attack all these countries using the Bush Doctrine? Cause the only way to eliminate every single threat to the US would be to attack them...well, not ONLY them but the entire world in fact. Heck, I'll add another one for you Fez..... Iraq is such a threat, theyre provoked by the littest things! Some worthless island that they really didnt even have control over was taken by someone, and...THEY WERE WILLING TO GO TO WAR! See, so how can we trust him to be stable..? Oh wait, thats SPAIN I'm talking about. So yeah, one day Spain could launch a massive attack on, oh NYC using chemical and biological weapons....Or France could. Or maybe Russia will nuke us! Germany might invade Britain....We gotta attack them all pre-emptively....

This is greatest post ever in the history of Apolyton.

	28-10-2002 02:30									#80
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My my, you have been busy! That must have taken a lot of work. I don't personally believe in killing anyone and I would not fight in a war (although I did in the past). I do believe however that the civil governemnt of a nation has the right and duty to protect its citizens and support right things and condemn that which is wrong. I debate these issues as a poster on Apolyton who has an idea of the historic perspective. I thought you were referring to the UN as being an entangling alliance by the way. In any case, I do agree that we should not have entangled ourselves with any nation. But now that we are hopelessely entangled in world affairs I do not think we should forsake Israel to pacify those who cannot be reasoned with regardless of what we do.

Again, I am a student of history so this is largely an abstract problem for me. I think we are going down the tubes as a nation and world. The enemy is not international terrorism. That is just the tip of the iceburg.

	28-10-2002 02:32									#81
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor Are you trying to be funny? No offense, but it ain't working for ya...

Yes, I noticed that you are a little dense.

	28-10-2002 02:34									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Yes, I noticed that you are a little dense.

Where the hell did that come from?

	28-10-2002 02:37									#83
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I thought you had a sense of humor... I admit that mine is a little dry but I thought you would catch on. I will try to be more obvious next time.

	28-10-2002 02:38									#84
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Thank you, Jimmy Carter!

Hey, now! I had that in there for a reason! (But Jimmy Carter also has the Nobel Peace Prize and I don't.)

Gatekeeper

	28-10-2002 02:40									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I thought you were referring to the UN as being an entangling alliance by the way. In any case, I do agree that we should not have entangled ourselves with any nation. But now that we are hopelessely entangled in world affairs I do not think we should forsake Israel to pacify those who cannot be reasoned with regardless of what we do.

I agree that the UN creates entangling alliances, but I don't know how you could have mistaken what I was talking about, as I specifically mentioned Israel, and was, in fact, repsonding to one of your posts about Israel.

And I don't give a **** about "pacifying" or "reasoning with" anyone. You're so desperate NOT to do those things that you let it cloud your judgement of what is right and what is wrong. I am interested in doing what is right, and incidentally, what is best for this country. Continuing to do what is wrong is NOT doing what is right, nor is it, by any stretch, what is best.

	28-10-2002 02:42									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I thought you had a sense of humor... I admit that mine is a little dry but I thought you would catch on. I will try to be more obvious next time.

I'm sorry, but me not laughing at your pathetic sense of humor does not make me dense.

	28-10-2002 02:46									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln No, we shouldn't attack anyone at random but what do you suggest the world do with a global threat of terrorism?

What does this have to do with an attack on Iraq? The two are not connected.

	28-10-2002 02:46									#88
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I think that some people cannot be reasoned with. I used to work in a prison. Maybe that clouded my judgment but there are some people I will not turn my back to. Fanatics by definition are beyond reason. We might as well face up to that. Imagine being on a rack during the inquisition and telling the priest that you really love God and your fellow man. *crank squeal...*

	28-10-2002 02:50									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Fanatics by definition are beyond reason.

That does explain why the fanatic warmongers in the Bush administration are so gung-ho about attacking, but doesn't have anything to do with justifying hitting Iraq. Iraq is not an Islamic fanatic state.

	28-10-2002 02:50									#90
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Dino: Now, now. We all know that the illusion of peace is more important than peace.