30-10-2002 02:55									#1
	Implementation of Supply Lines Support Apolyton

Having read the showcases one thing that caught my eye was the intention to implement supply lines. From the impression I got a "supply wagon unit" would be able to heal other units. So having it along on a campaign would benefit the army as a whole. From showcase part 2:

quote: Especially helpful while engaged in or catching one's breath after battle, Supply Wagons can be brought in to mend broken bones, repair mechanical malfunctions as well as carry supplies for further campaigning. They are most effective in this capacity if they are included in your military entourage from the outset, but are not required to be given that much advance notice before going into action.

RON is the first game I have seen to have given thought to supply lines in any form. Consider the following scenario, quite plausible in past Civ games:

Unload an army half way around the world and have it happily fight for years across an ocean dominated by the enemies navy.

Now this just can't happen in the real world. Why? Consider that an army requires resupply of food, munitions, replacement equipment, replacement personnel etc. In 1942 in the north Africa campaign the distances were so great that both sides found their capability to continue advancing hampered by the mind boggling distances involved. Their supply lines were so over extended that it was an easy target for the enemy. It couldn't be protected sufficiently.

The same in the Germans advance into the Soviet Union 1941-1942. There is also an issue with hauling equipment across huge distances. The longer the distance of the advance the tougher it becomes to take the supplies to the front (in some cases nearly a thousand miles!).

I suppose in past Civ games the supply lines were ignored as troops were supposed to live off pillaging? Plausible in the Russian steppe for the Germans but try finding enough food for the AfricaCorp in the deserts around El Alamein!

So how could supply lines be implemented? There are many ways to do this but I'll throw mine into the hat for consideration:

Start with an assumption of 100% secure supply line from each unit to the capital or centre of the homeland*. By supply line I am imagining an invisible supply effect. No actual supply unit.

At 100% supply line integrity the nation's units operate at 100% strength. This percentage is lowered by the influence of enemy units that the supply line has to pass through.

With this implemented the scenario I outlined earlier of unloading a division into the enemies homeland across an enemy controlled sea wouldn't work as the units would have large penalites to their strength as re-supply ships couldn't effectively pass through the enemy controlled seas.

Suddenly sea power becomes important! Controlling the oceans affects the ability to fight across the ocean! Think about the Battle of the Atlantic during WWII and how important it was to secure the seas before an invasion of mainland Europe could even be attempted. I'm only suggesting something that would bring that realism to a game.

I'm not sure how air units are being implemented but I get the impression that they are flying sorties from an airbase structure in which case re-supply isn't a concern.

As far as sea units are concerned I don't think they need to worry about supply lines either as ships have historically been sent "out to sea" equipped for extremely long periods.

What do think guys and gals? A red herring or s'thing worth consideration?

Thanks for reading!

Sith

*By homeland I'm assuming a CivIII-esque empire layout where all cities are required to have a coherent "nation" layout to minimise corruption losses i.e. cities aren't spread all over the place with other nation's cities interspaced. In this scenario the centre of the homeland would simply be the centre of the nation?

	30-10-2002 03:16									#2
	Support Apolyton

in a TBS game, the invisible supply may work well, but in an RTS id DEFINATELY prefer the supply unit approach, or even a convoy of them.

you should be able to destroy / capture the supply units. not only could you deny the enemy their precious supplies, you could send them to your own troops!

	30-10-2002 04:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Personally, I like the way they plan on implementing it. It seems clean and easy to me. I don't know if the fast pace of a RTS game would really allow for an invisible supply line you would need to keep.

	30-10-2002 18:40									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

supply units in RON dont live forever!

quote: Supply Wagon (upgrades to Supply Truck) - Small weak unit that carries “hit points” with it for other units to heal from/absorb. - Supply Wagons deplete after healing 1,000 hit points. - Supply Trucks deplete after healing 3,000 hit points.

(numbers of course could change)

	30-10-2002 20:46									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Markos,

Do you lose hit points in an attack if you don't have a supply unit? Or is it basically just a way to repair your units?

	30-10-2002 22:11									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by tniem Markos, Do you lose hit points in an attack if you don't have a supply unit? Or is it basically just a way to repair your units?

attrition in enemy territory.

in order to sustain a prolonged offensive you need supply lines.

my question: if a supply truck is damaged, does it lose some of it's cargo?

	30-10-2002 22:19									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

one thing that would help with reducing micromanagement is for a building that makes supply wagons/trucks to be assigned to an army group so they automatically make its way to the army at regular intervals. even better if an army detail can then also be assigned to the building to escort any supply wagons along its way.

	30-10-2002 22:27									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i also think attrrition and thus supply problems should be scaled to the type of terrain also.

so you get a standard attrition for regular terrain
then higher attrition for desert or winter terrain
then higher attrition for russian winter.
or at least a gradient in attrition.

then have research to attenuate the attrition even without supply wagons (like winter or desert training to reduce the effects of attrition) but not completely. So that we dont have to always rely on supply wagons (in order to reduce micromanagement also) but will still need the wagons to ward off attrition completely.

	30-10-2002 22:36									#9
	Support Apolyton

1) your units loose hit points
- while being in enemy territory, just by standing there(attrition)
- while being hit by enemy units
2) your units heal
- when you have a supply unit near them

supply units are weak and are easily destroyed