30-10-2002 07:59									#1
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Polling for the next 5 base names - pick 5 of the above & this poll lasts 3 days

	30-10-2002 08:12									#2
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Terminal Dogma! And we must store all Artifacts there...

	30-10-2002 08:20									#3
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Before I vote...there's something that confuses me a little.

I notice Pandemonium is in this poll.

But there is currently a city named Pandemonium.
I'd appreciate an answer soon - this could directly affect the outcome of our first court case (or whether it even needs to be heard).

	30-10-2002 11:20									#4
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I checked my 2175 save - no base named Pandemonium.

	30-10-2002 11:49									#5
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Hmm. It was mentioned in DBTS turnthread.

Oh DBTS? What's the story with this?

	30-10-2002 12:11									#6
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Maki said it wasn't there in 2175, but DBTS' report says it wasn't founded until after, so I'd assume it does actually exist.

	30-10-2002 12:27									#7
	Re: Next 5 base names Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I picked....

New Tassagrad
Pandemonium (Hopefully this wasnt already founded)
Terminal Dogma
The Sheathed Sword
and the name of my third favorite anthem: Hatikva

	30-10-2002 13:36									#8
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Power to

New Tassagrad
Deus Ex Machina
The Sheathed Sword
Crystalis
Hatikva

	30-10-2002 14:09									#9
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I picked...
New Tassagrad
Deus Ex Machina
Crystalis
Terminal Dogma
U.N. Research Complex

	30-10-2002 15:09									#10
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And I picked:

UN Research Complex
Terminal Dogma
Deua Ex Machina
The Sheathed Sword
Crystalis

	30-10-2002 17:41									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Maki said it wasn't there in 2175, but DBTS' report says it wasn't founded until after, so I'd assume it does actually exist.

DBTS founded it in the turnTHREAD. maki, the last save is 2181

	30-10-2002 17:43									#12
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new tassagrad
UNRC
Deus ex
terminal dogma
hatikva

	30-10-2002 20:16									#13
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pandemonium already exist...people because we couldnt get a name that quickly we came up with pandemonium....it already is out there people....

	30-10-2002 21:13									#14
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Terminal Dogma!!
...and four others

	30-10-2002 21:30									#15
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Terminal Dogma!

quote: And we must store all Artifacts there...

	30-10-2002 21:40									#16
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quote: Originally posted by lucky22 Terminal Dogma!! ...and four others

gonna drive my karma to Terminal Dogma

	31-10-2002 00:09									#17
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If/when we build Terminal Dogma, I've gotta switch back to my badass mofo Gendou avatar and move to live there.

	31-10-2002 02:42									#18
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xenobanana is a perfectly acceptable name yet almost no one is picking it!

	31-10-2002 04:07									#19
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I vote write in for UN Streetsweepers

	31-10-2002 04:27									#20
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since the last time i was here, pandemonium has received more votes. stop voting for it people, it already exists! you could be voting for UNRC instead of thowing your vote away

	31-10-2002 04:51									#21
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All you pandemonium people come back and write in a differnt one, pretty please

	08-12-2002 22:14									#22
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hercules, we need a new base name poll soon. tell me again, what was your problem with this poll, and how i should make our next one?

	09-12-2002 11:21									#23
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His problem was some ridiculous nit-picking over one word in the Constitution which may have resulted from a language error by DBTS. He claimed that as the passage in question read 'how they shall be named' and not 'what they shall be named', that Makahlua had acted outside her authority in polling for base names.

	09-12-2002 20:05									#24
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These are some of the ideas discussed away back before the game started but the issue was never resolved.

Crisler
I agree that the first city be named as default. However I feel that each city after that should have names to reflect our efforts.

I call for each Commissioner to be able to name the first city created during his Administration. As I understand this though we will bend that rule for the first to cities. The First Commissioner will name the first added city and the Second Commissioner the second, provided we can add two cities in the second commissioners term.
The key is what to do after those cities are named. Suppose the Second Commissioner is able to build three additional cities. City one will be named by the First Comm. City 2 by the sitting Comm, and what about city 3?
Personally I would like the idea of going down the members list.

Schee
I personnally think that the cities should be named by randomly choosing citizens (with only one city by citizen) and maybe the ministers could have twice the chances of a citizen to be chosen ?

TKG
eh, i dont like the idea of going down the members list. not everyone comes here anymore, and people at #40 or so wouldn't get a city even if they're more active here than the person at #7.

i'd rather see them named after directors. Lemmy>i like that Lemmy Labs. now if only my name was lemmy...

Andemagne

my suggestion for naming cities: first base default, then every citizen can post one city name and commissioner chooses from them. isn't this nice?

Vlad Antlerkov
How about the names being randomly selected, instead of selected by the commish?

Pande
Or the commissionner select 15 of them, and people vote ?

Gnool
I think everyone should have a say in naming every city

They can be summarised into three broad proposals that can appy to the naming of bases, regions landmarks etc.

1 Each active (frequent poster/voter) citizen gets a city named from his/her choice of names. (need to define what is meant by active ,15 posts in the DG per month?) and by reference to the order of citizen registration.
Call this :citizen rota method.

2 All names submitted are voted on. top 5 chosen ? top 10 chosen? With a minimum of 5, 10, ? votes received.

Call this the Popularity vote method


3 A combination of 1 and 2 . Here the next 15 bases are chosen, maybe 10 from the roster and 5 via the popularity poll.

CAll this theCombination method

4 Write in.

5 Xenobanana

These are suggested 'How' to name methods but open to a liitle bit more discussion.

I favour option 3 as it encourgaes participation in the game and the chance to 'live' in your base and make suggestions to your regional governor for its well being.

See next thread for voting method

Last edited by Hercules on 09-12-2002 at 20:15

	09-12-2002 20:54									#25
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The second part of the 'How' to name procedure is what voting method to operate, where applicable.

1 As above, where each citizen has 5 votes for 5 place names or 10 votes for 10 place names and places are named in order of votes cast.
Call this Straight forward

2 Two stage vote. whereby to get on to the final name list (if there is a limit to the number of candidate names for a poll) a suggested name must meet some criteria (eg 1 suggestion per citizen; first 15 suggestions ( 1 per citizen) posted, following official nominations opening; the top 15 from a larger poll but must have received at least 4 votes or 10% of total citizens votes).

Call this Two stage vote

Note depending on how fast we build new bases/capture bases, the naming polls should occur what once every 4/6 weeks?

By the way have we a policy on renaming captured bases.

	09-12-2002 21:16									#26
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I have to say, though I was sceptical about the trial, and it is just a difference of one word, Herc has a valid point. How should we choose names? I think this should be cleared up ASAP, and then a new name poll done. i think the idea of doing a new poll whenever we have used 5 names is a good idea too.

	10-12-2002 01:42									#27
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Your ignorance on this issue is logical knowing the fact you weren't here from the beginning, but there already has been a poll about base naming. Check the ACDG directory Term I for the citizen polls. Many methods and structures we still use now were decided back then, in the months August and September.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59174

quote: 3. Citizen post one (or several) name, Commisionner chooses n of them, and then Citizen votes for the base name.

We still use this base naming poll, with the exception that the official organizing the poll has changed a few times (Commish -> AT -> DBP -> DIA If I'm correct).

So please drop this topic. The issue was resolved democratically a long time ago.

	10-12-2002 03:10									#28
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maki's method was just easier. instead of making 1 poll for every base, she just merged them into 1 poll to make it less confusing. i personally like that method, and unless i'm going to have a nasty lawsuit on my hands, i'll use it.

	10-12-2002 04:04									#29
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OK, looking at that, I'm satisfied that it's all consitutional. IMHO, I'd just use it, we've already chosen how, so we just need base names now.

	10-12-2002 07:10									#30
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Maniac: it would have been interesting if you had submitted yourself as a witness in the constitutional trial on Maki's behalf. why didn't you? why did you not mention that august poll until now.

TKG and Drogue: Happiness or easiness with a procedure doesn't make it constitutional.

First the Pande's poll was pre-mature (the discussions and ideas were still ongoing, see posting timetable)*, unofficial and incomplete (see below, many voters were unaware of the multi vote aspect), but understandable in its enthusiasm, in those heady days.

* Note De's recent postings on the hastiness of certain polls. Obviously a recurrent problem from early days.

Secondly, whatever its legitimacy then? it was all superceded by the adoption of the new UN constitution in early September 2002.

As the result of error (perhaps due to time pressure) the duties of the then Director of Base production were outlined in the same constitution but were clearly in conflict with the duties of the Alpha Talent /Commissioner.

Maki, with the of best intentions, tried a couple of times to speed up the naming issue. Unfortunately the how issue had not been resolved. Hence where we are now.

Let me also say that the 5 justices elected by the citizens considered this complaint and decided there was a case to answer. So vox populi and individual opinions posted here don't count. If the posters wished to give testimony they should have submitted it through the proper channels, otherwise one has trial by press or posted opinion.

If that is the way citizens want to conduct affairs then why have a constitution or supreme court.

I too like 'easy to vote for' systems, but democracy is more than that.


Naming History and chronology

Darkness Edge 14-08-2002 10:22
City Names
When the time comes to begin, how are we going to name our cities?
I propose following the Civ3 system. The people agree on a name for the capital, then certain ministers get to name a city each, whatever they choose...

Andemagne 17-08-2002 02:18

my suggestion for naming cities: first base default, then every citizen can post one cityname and commissioner chooses from them. isn't this nice?

Andemagne 17-08-2002 02:22

The Name Thread

if my suggestion in this thread http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...549#post1217169
goes thru, every citizen can name ONE (1) of our Bases. post your suggestions here, and please keep this thread clean. and remember ONE name per Citizen. ****

****Note Pande interpreted this, as each citizen suggesting names for bases as opposed to each citizen getting to choose a name for a base (either his own suggestion or some other name suggested).
Pandemoniak 17-08-2002 02:37

Or the commissionner select 15 of them, and people vote ?

Andemagne 17-08-2002 02:39
quote:

Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov
How about the names being randomly selected, instead of selected by the commish?

firm no. (of course you can suggest that but I won't)
I want to see disent base names, and hopefully commish is man for the job.
and how do you achieve that random factor? ask MarkG a number?
EDIT: and NO to Pandemoniak also

Pandemoniak 18 08 2002


Which method are we gonna use to name bases ?

1. The Commissioner names a base, then the Alpha Talent names a base, and so on according to hierarchy in government.

2. Citizen post one (or several) name and the Commissionner choose among them.

3. Citizen post one (or several) name, Commisionner chooses n of them, and then Citizen votes for the base name.

4. Each Citizen post one (or several) name, and it is randomly choosen among all.

Hey, guys, this poll allows mutliple votes...

Ans thanx Lemmy for explaining what I had trouble to do

I voted 3 but would also be happy with 4.. ;=)
Saw too late its multiple Arrgghh me

Result by 58%
3. Citizen post one (or several) name, Commisionner chooses n of them, and then Citizen votes for the base name.


What happen here was that Pande jumped in with a poll of 4 options before the discussions on the issue were complete (echos of recent region name poll from limited selection, ignoring advice of Commissioner and others on hastiness).

As happens all too frequently here on planet , someone posts an ill considered poll. After some voting, common sense prevails and DE or other Dir asks that the poll be stopped. However some citizens continue to vote and then the poll setter or some other Dir/Gov looking for guidance regards the result as valid.

What follows is my submission to the UN Supreme Court on the naming problem.

UN Constitution 2 09 2002
Base Names:

The alpha talent or the commissioner will pick 5 names from the name thread and will put them in a poll where a name for a new city can be chosen. This poll has to be open for at least 2 days. The name with the most votes will be chosen for the base and will be scraped from the list. The same counts for landmarks. If someone wants to name a place without a landmark a poll has started about giving it a name or not. This poll will also have minimum of 2 days.

Constitution on duties the DofPB [quote Posting polls on how our bases should be named[/quote]

What you have done and it's ok for now obviously, is 'Posting polls on what our bases should be named not how our bases should be named. There is a difference.
Anyhow whatever the interpretation, the constitution needs updating to delete that part of the constitution in part 11, that I referred to earlier about ' Alpha talent ...5 base names'. The two parts could be viewed as in conflict.

Secondly you might finalise the discussion on how to name bases by a poll: You will recall the thread started by Andemagne. There were a number ways proposed:
1. (As you organised above) all names listed and all citizens have the opportunity to vote
2. Every regular and active citizen to have a base name of their choice.
3. Variations of 2

So is it too much to ask for some agreed simple polls on How to name? See earlier posts.

Rather than argue with the Supreme Court why doesn't the DIA just start a poll based on my guidelines (subject to amendments improvements and suggestions within the guidelines).