30-10-2002 15:28									#1
	Anno 1503 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks for the info in that threadjack Sir Ralph, I really appreciate it. Anybody else that wants to talk about this game feel free to jump in, me and Sir Ralph don't own the board you know

Now where were we, as yes...
I got lucky today and they have some new content up in English at sunflowers site for a chat they had a few days ago. Was really interesting.

Some things that I saw in there that were of very high interest to me.

They said something about discovering treasure when you build? Now I didn't play 1602 all the way through, some of those scenarios were just plain tedious but I thought I had seen all the game had to offer. You know what they were talking about and can you explain it to me? Here is the quote from the transcript

(Lavitz)
Will there once again be treasures to be found on some islands when building?
(Jochen Bauer)
Yes.


Here was a huge disappointment (quote from transcript follows)

(Markus)
Have you taken any precautions against "Multi-player Cheating"? It would be really annoying otherwise ....
(Jochen Bauer)
Yes, there are no cheats in MP.

Now this is a sure sign of overconfidence, I expect huge cheating issues/bugs once they get the game running for MP.


And I guess the last issue I want to bring up now is the difference in Germans and Americans. I know Germans tend to regard a highly detailed strategy game as being 3 times better than cocaine. I also know such things tend not to fly as well in America. Yeah, I played Tropico and 1602 and I know how the sales look for those games in both countries. You think 1503 will do well in America or about like 1602 did? Do you think that I, a lazy American with a short attention span will go all the way through the game or will I burn out on the tedious aspects long before I get to the end like I did with 1503? I know German games are pretty hard to finish (in general) but if the design is solid and they get most of the bugs out, all I need is great gameplay to keep me hooked and missions that can be completed without absolute perfect play. Might be too early for you to give an answer for this but give it a shot if you don't mind. We are adults here and with a bit of thought surely we can discuss such a topic in a suitable fashion without offending anybody.

On a brighter note, the chat transcript says I can buy it in February, when I emailed a moderator at sunflowers she just said first quarter, nice to have it narrowed down some, hope they make the date and get things running pretty well. I could care less when they get the multiplayer up and running but it would be cool if I didn't have to download the patch and it was on the CD, I don't mind waiting if I got a great single player game to entertain me.

Thanks for your English discussion of the game and well done on winning that Civ3 match from the iceberg, your much better than me.

Regards,
Alantus

	30-10-2002 19:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

About treasures: You have a scout unit in 1503 (displayed as a man with a donkey), which you have to navigate over the islands. Unlike 1602, the resources of the islands aren't discovered automatically anymore, but you have to move your scout over the island to see if there are mountains that bear resources. Sometimes, on the way the speaker says "you have found the treasure of an ancient civilization". If you look up the map near your scout, you see a chest blinking. Move the scout over it to get some extra gold. The documentation about this is lousy, I didn't figure myself, that I have to move my scout over the treasure, till I read it in the forums.

There are many resources btw, additional to the iron and gold of 1602 there are marble, salt and gems. Salt is especially crucial. Without it your Pioneers don't turn into Settlers and it's very hard for you to get a balanced or positive monetary bilance. If you don't have salt, you're nearly fvcked up. Fortunately, it isn't scarce. Marble is needed for some upper class buildings, and gems (together with gold) for jewelry for your Aristocrats (I wonder if they keep them in the US version, as they are so despised there over the pond).

About the MP cheating: I never played 1602 MP, so I can't judge. But it's sound, on multiplayer every cheat mode should be deactivated.

	30-10-2002 21:37									#3
	Aristocrats etc. Tired of ads?

I'm sure they will keep the Aristocrats, they left them in for 1602. Of course leaving them in the game in 1602 did little to help my opinion of them, I was always out of booze and tobacco and cloth when they showed up you know.

Judging from my experiences in other MP games (never played 1602 MP myself) I have learned to distrust such bold statements of confidence when it comes to MP cheating. The determination of those that want the easy road to twisted success is unbelievable.

I was confused by that chat transcript, it really sounded like the treasure feature was in 1602 and that really puzzled me. Your response leads me to believe this is a new feature, thanks for clearing that up.

I hope they get the manual fully translated this time, my 1602 manual has a few lovely German words in, pretty hard to forgive such a glaring mistake in my book. While it was easy to figure out the words they forgot to translate it is much easier to realize that this should have never happened.

Thanks for the info,
Alantus

	30-10-2002 22:30									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There seems to be a change in gameplay. Upper classes don't need all luxuries of lower classes anymore. I didn't have Aristocrats yet, but as far as I heard, all they need is food, silk clothes, wine and jewelry; the latter 3 exclusive, nobody else needs those. They don't use other things like tobacco, alcohol, salt and leather anymore. Of the buildings, they need a theater and bathes, but not school and pub anymore. Also, they have a special type of houses, others don't upgrade to Aristocrat's houses anymore, they must be built extra. Some players build special settlements for them. It's said, that it is hard and expensive to make it to Aristocrats, but once you have them, they pay a big load of taxes.

	30-10-2002 22:42									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Here's a screenie of the scout on the quest for resources in the savannah. He has btw room for 20 goods and is able to build a markethouse, once he discovered a resource.

Attachment: scout.jpg
This has been downloaded 41 time(s).

	30-10-2002 23:26									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

*makes the generic "I hope I'll love it, since 1602 was so damn good" - post*

FYI, 1602 was the first strategy game I got addicted on. I just couldn't get enough. Of course, my play time was significantly lengthened by the fact that the thing called automatic trade routes was unknown to me for the first three months, meaning that I manually shipped clothes and whatnot from one island to other. I upkept a colony of over 4000 people, 900 aristocrats, with that technique.

	30-10-2002 23:42									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Was 1602 one of those games that went over big in Europe but bombed when it got over here?

	30-10-2002 23:53									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

As far as I can see, it's a lot harder than 1602 and about twice or even thrice as complex, Kassiopeia. And although delayed 6 months, it's still buggy. Hopefully most of the bugs get squashed in the next weeks.

Wow, you needed 3 months to figure the automatic trade routes in 1602 *smile*. That's far more than I played that game at all. I can't say I got addicted, but also enjoyed it for a while.

DinoDoc: I don't know anything about the sales numbers of 1602 in the US. But since Sunflowers and EA make a big effort to localize it's successor, it can't have been so bad. Although Alantus is probably right about the different preferences of players at both sides of the pond.

	31-10-2002 00:00									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: As far as I can see, it's a lot harder than 1602 and about twice or even thrice as complex, Kassiopeia.

Buggrit. Overt complexity can kill a game... Nor do I know if I've got time to play that much any longer. Especially considering it really did take me three months to understand automatic trade routes.

1602 is quite old isn't it? It was my first true blood computer game, so I must've bought it in early 1999, if I recall correctly.

	31-10-2002 00:17									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Buggrit. Overt complexity can kill a game...

That's true, and I hope it's not too complex to kill the joy. I have it just a couple of days now, it was released last Friday, and can't judge yet.

Yes, 1602 must have been released around 1999. I tried to fire it up in the beginning of October to warm up for 1503, but it didn't install on XP.

	31-10-2002 08:14									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

1602 installed on XP for me, but I hardly bothered with it after I got it installed. It takes a really great game to keep me coming back for alot more and 1602 doesn't quite qualify. I'm hoping 1503 suits me a little better.

I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm sure the first one enjoyed much more popularity in Europe than in the US. The sales numbers might have eventually gotten fairly high here but if it did it was due to sales from the discount bins. I saw the game offered for $10 or less on many scouting trips in the land of PC games over the past few years. If they expected the popularity in the US to be as high as it is in Europe they would have released them at the same time most likely.

Complexity is good as long as there are multiple ways of achieving your goals. I hated the scenarios where you had to settle this island first and you had to cut off your settlers from building materials at a certain level so you didn't run out of tools to settle another island and get another source of iron going or you were going to lose. I like it when there are several viable methods of getting the task accomplished. The differences in cultures should add enough excitement to keep the complexity frustrations in the background. When I'm learning new stuff I love it, when I'm doing the same old thing again and again I start to yawn.

Nice screen shot Ralph, thanks.

Alantus