31-10-2002 02:43									#31
	Support Apolyton

You don't find it disgusting that there's already a patch?

	31-10-2002 02:44									#32
	Heh Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

"FULL UBER RIOT MODE" I'm with you RIGHT NOW

	31-10-2002 03:11									#33
	Put an end to popups!

I'm appalled! They released the game with bugs and other rare problems and released a patch to fix it!
First they break the rule that mistakes are never made and problems are never missed and then had then the gall to fix it!
How dare they release this expansion to one great game at the same time they release a patch. they should have at least awaited a month

	31-10-2002 03:25									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Luke. Use the force Luke.

And look at the version number(s).

I am not surprised at all that there is a patch out on release day. Would you rather have waited a week?

	31-10-2002 03:27									#35
	Increase Your PM Length

hehe absolutely comical.

kudos for releasing a patch so fast to fix problems for people who have just bought it.

complaints for releasing a product when it has so many flaws, esp. with "Fixed bug that caused players to win when they, in fact, lost.".

oh I love the gaming industry. cant wait to get back in the lunacy it entails, its great to work in the industry but some things just are too surreal for comment. ah well back to my AI project methinks, challenge soren for a job

	31-10-2002 03:29									#36
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

hehe absolutely comical.

kudos for releasing a patch so fast to fix problems for people who have just bought it.

a couple of "wtf's" for releasing a product when it has so many flaws, esp. with a "Fixed bug that caused players to win when they, in fact, lost." bug.

oh I love the gaming industry. cant wait to get back in the lunacy it entails, its great to work in the industry but some things just are too surreal for comment. ah well back to my AI project methinks, mebbe i can persuade soren im good for a job

	31-10-2002 03:33									#37
	Re: Re: Huff Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: anyway, i should be getting it tomorrow (friday the latest), and i'll be prepared for FULL UBER RIOT MODE if something is sub par

Count on Me Uber!

	31-10-2002 03:48									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: they should have at least awaited a month

	31-10-2002 03:53									#39
	Tired of ads?

Where's Coracle and Zouave when you need them??

	31-10-2002 04:05									#40
	Reading the goat's entrails ... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

"* Fixed bug that caused players to win when they, in fact, lost."

Humor value aside, doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious?

-O.

	31-10-2002 04:11									#41
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious?

why? it was most probably just a typo
instead of writing

code:
if($winner) then goto screen(4355)

someone wrote

code:
if($winner) then goto screen(4345)

apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured? )

	31-10-2002 04:21									#42
	Got spare money?

Or it worked fine until a recent version, and then something changed...

	31-10-2002 04:34									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Arizona_Steve Where's Coracle and Zouave when you need them??

Them?

	31-10-2002 04:40									#44
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Them?

DL Dance time?

	31-10-2002 04:42									#45
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i'm kinda shocked that a patch was released the day it came out, but it's better this way then me ranting tomorrow.

	31-10-2002 04:45									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious? why? it was most probably just a typo instead of writing code: if($winner) then goto screen(4355) someone wrote code: if($winner) then goto screen(4345) apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured? )

heh generally rather than screen(4355) most would use

#define WINNING_X_SCREEN 1
#define WINNING_Y_SCREEN 2
#define LOSING_X_SCREEN 3

then use

if ( position == WIN_X )
callScreen( WINNING_X_SCREEN );
else if ( position == LOSE_X )
callScreen( LOSING_X_SCREEN );

makes "simple typos" of 4345/4355 a lot easier to avoid

but i agree most testers will avoid certain situations unless otherwise told too. however that inclination makes them bad testers, when the whole point of testing is to cover the whole spectrum of possible choices.

	31-10-2002 04:49									#47
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious? why? it was most probably just a typo apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured? )

Sorry MarkG, as long as I respect you, this time I think you are trying to substain that the sun raising west is just a typo!

It doesn't matter if a player stop the game before ending. It matters a lot (in fact is unacceptable in business software) that a whole "tester team" stop the test before they finished the assigned "check list".

What a pity will be if the game is rushed again (disclaimer: I haven't bought it, so I judge from post I'm reading here). You know, MBytes of slow and expensive download patch right before the game hit the shelves? In every other business Firaxis should be forced to send a free patched CD to every consumer and to retire from the market and replace the CD in every game box still on the shops.

Software industry: you can't live with it, still can't live without it.

	31-10-2002 04:49									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

	31-10-2002 04:54									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by MarkG you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

i've done it, and i'd expect my testers to do it

	31-10-2002 04:54									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Adm.Naismith, "other industy" arguments? how about the "if it was a car" argument?

an a 7mb download is not expensive to people who will spend hundreds of hours playing online

again, i explained why the patch was released that early. there is no rush, no secret infogrames blackmail...

	31-10-2002 04:56									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by MarkG you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

I certainly wouldn't want to play a depressing situation to the end but as a tester I would, because I've worked in the game industry and seen bugs be discovered by a dedicated tester that otherwise might have sneaked through.

having said that, programmers don't like bugs being found in their code ( I don't for sure ) and I've been scowled at by a colleague for finding a three year old bug in the code by simply scanning through it to get a handle on what I might be working on in the future.

yes bugs happen but good testers take what they are doing seriously and put fun aside often enough to do what is necessary to find bugs. however bugs do slip through, it's as natural as MicroSoft write sh*te code.

	31-10-2002 04:59									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Demerzel, whatever
we're only arguing cause we dont have the game yet anyway

	31-10-2002 05:03									#53
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by MarkG you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

Yeah, the same devotion we must have to work every day, also every day that's not the day of the paycheck! (because Firaxis have professional tester, not only free beta, haven't they?)

	31-10-2002 05:03									#54
	Inflate your Upload Space

hehe I'm trying to be the devil's advocate since I'm not going to buy PtW.

	31-10-2002 05:12									#55
	Full PM-box? Change here!

perhaps we should take one of those professional testers and give him a good public spanking....
or have Sid give up a month's pay to charity in order to give an example of proper corporate ethics

	31-10-2002 05:14									#56
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MarkG perhaps we should take one of those professional testers and give him a good public spanking.... or have Sid give up a month's pay to charity in order to give an example of proper corporate ethics

sheesh stop thinking of PR stunts to boost apolyton hits...

	31-10-2002 05:15									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious? why? it was most probably just a typo instead of writing code: if($winner) then goto screen(4355) someone wrote code: if($winner) then goto screen(4345) apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured? )

Two comments, one serious, one not --

1. QC is QC

2. Okay, so now the goats are a lot less nervous re: future augury (cf. my first post)

Abraxas,

Oz

	31-10-2002 05:25									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by MarkG Adm.Naismith, "other industy" arguments? how about the "if it was a car" argument?

As you like, sir: here in Italy we had few weeks ago some thousand cars (an old model) recalled to the factory - the assistance points - to have a free repair of an old problem that can cause trouble to the passenger. Some years ago, my TV was inspected and a component replaced free because the manufactured discovered it was defective...

quote: an a 7mb download is not expensive to people who will spend hundreds of hours playing online

This could be a good point, but I'm considering to buy PTW as a "solo" expansion, for give a try to turnless and simultaneous turn mode...
Anyway I'll left this point to you. guest 1:1 host

quote: again, i explained why the patch was released that early. there is no rush, no secret infogrames blackmail...

You explained that the game production cycle is longer than patch discovery and solving...
OK, I'll stop my "almost ranting" posts here: feel free to use your right to reply, but please don't take offence if I'll close here my activity on this "patch" debate.

	31-10-2002 05:31									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: * Fixed bug that caused players to win when they, in fact, lost.

Sigh.
You guys read way too much into this. At one point, with both Mass Regicide and Regicide enabled, if you lost a king on the first turn of the game, you got the popup saying "Congratulations! You've Won" and then the game crashed. It's not nearly as dumb as the readme makes it sound.
Sheesh!

	31-10-2002 05:36									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS Sigh. You guys read way too much into this. At one point, with both Mass Regicide and Regicide enabled, if you lost a king on the first turn of the game, you got the popup saying "Congratulations! You've Won" and then the game crashed. It's not nearly as dumb as the readme makes it sound. Sheesh!

ooh, sack the readme writer!

still sounds comical in the win but not win stakes

in my gaming programming days, i remember a time when we used bugtraq(?) and we got 3,000 odd issues listed in the d/base over a month or so. pity that half the things the twenty odd testers brought up were either their problems caused by tjheir own ignorance(RTFM), questioning the unit data or were their suggestions for improvements. still they caught a lot of things we'd not have found otherwise.