28-07-2000 01:19									#1
	What would you add to Religion in CTP? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I was thinking about this and the comments I have seen about religion being under represented in CTP.

At first I agreed but then wondered what more should be added. The impact of religion on the infrastructure has been IMHO fairly consistant. Now the impact on history (ie world altering events) has been otherwise to be sure but really what about just plain old infrastructure?

CTP has only a couple of specific religous things.
Religon = Temple. If we compare this one thing to CIVII for example it encompases ceremonial burial, mysticism and all theisms (ie mono and poly... which is just a belief in one or many higher powers).

Then we have Perspective which gives the Cathedral. It makes no sense IMHO to have separate buildings for mono and poly theisms. The Cathedral is simply a bigger better Temple to one or many dieties.

Other 'isms' include:
Deism which is a belief in a non-interfering higher power.
Gnosticism which is belief in salvation through spiritual knowlege.
Atheism which is a belief in no higher power.

Now I'm greatly over simplifying here but I am curious as to opinions about how religions differ in impact. As far as I can tell they only differ in dogma. They all serve to control and in CTP terms make people happy (since unhappiness just means you don't get to do what you want with them... you have to give them leisure ie make them entertainers).

If they are all the same in 'impact' then why have more than one technology thread?

Thoughts?

	28-07-2000 06:57									#2
	Remove this text

Hi, interesting topic. Well I don't think that any of the civ games have really simulated religion in a realistic manner, except maybe smac, I haven't played that game in a while but as I remember certain personalities will not get along with each other that well although this is not religion based but, something like this should be done with regards to religion. Sure in ctp, in the early stages of the game you can build special units depending on your government, if I remember it's the government of theocracy that enables the use of the cleric unit. But something else that should be applied to the civ series is that certain civs with certain religions should hate other civs with a different religion, especially true with the early stages of the game where people were more fanatical about thier beliefs and were hateful towards other religions.

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Gemini
[This message has been edited by gemini (edited July 27, 2000).]

	07-08-2000 00:10									#3
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Well this is sort of a *bump*.

Come on guys, I'm looking for ideas here. What is that has silenced everyone? Is it the requirement that we not discuss dogma? Gemini had a point that could pertain to AI's that groups with differing ideologies don't really get along. In a CTP context I have always considered those groups to be divided by player so such differences in ideology, be it religous or political are already represented.

I have heard so often that religions are under-represented. Well I ask why? I'm talking about what does one religion do for the good of society that is different than another? I'm looking for opinions on 'why have different religions' as oposed to the super-granularity point-of-view of 'yes this group has developed a religious system and therefore gets infrastructure that improves happiness thereby permitting society to make them work'.

Gedrin

	22-09-2000 14:09									#4
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IMHO, it's hard to say, with certainty, that religion A gives benefit B, while religion C gives benefit D (in the real world, that is).

That said, there are different styles in religion: some, like Shintoism and Zoasterism (sp?), are traditional to one culture, and didn't do much prostelytizing, but have a strong impact on the culture they are native to. This could be "simulated" by giving better effects of buildings, high moral to troops with homecity with a temple, etc.

Others, like Christianity and Islam, are more interested in converting the masses, but, as a result, tend to lose the over-riding one-ness of religions based on a certain groups native beliefs. (For instance, the lengths Paul has to go to to reconcile Jewish converts to Christianity with Pagan converts), this could be "simulated" with something bonus to conversion, indulgences, etc, but penalties to the bonus of religious buildings.

All that said, I think some of this is asking a bit much from the game, as it stands...maybe civ3, or ctp 2, though...

All IMHO, that is.

-KhanMan of the Sayen